Weight Loss Realities: Terri Garcia Linares on What Actually Works

[0:00] All right. Today’s guest isn’t a doctor, a personal trainer, or one of those Instagram health coaches who yells at you from their Peloton. Kathy: She’s also not selling detox tea, which is already a green flag. Jason: Oh, I get it. Green flag, green tea. Clever. All right. But somehow without a medical degree or a six-pack, Terry Garcia Leonard changed her health, lost the weight, and maybe most impressively, she did it without losing her mind. Kathy: That’s right. She’s here to talk about what actually works, what’s total BS, and why stretching doesn’t count as cardio.

[0:30] Jason: It does if you do it aggressively. This is the PTCH where we talk about the health stuff you didn’t know you needed, probably forgot to ask about, and definitely need to hear with a few laughs along the way. What happens when a chiropractor and a physical therapist get together to make a health and wellness podcast? Chiropractors and physical therapists don’t like each other. Oh, think again. I’m Dr. Kathy Lynch, physical therapist who likes to help people move and get stronger. I’m Dr. Jason Young, an evidence-based chiropractor who uses humor just as much as adjustments to

[1:00] help people get better. Welcome to the PTCH Podcast. Remember, there’s no I in PTCH. All right, welcome everybody back to the PTCH. We’re so excited to have our guest today, Terry Garcia Leonard. Terry’s been a friend of ours for a long time. So if you’re a friend of ours, I guess you could say you’re a friend of the show. All right, welcome. So Terry works locally here in Corvallis with Union Home Mortgage. She does mortgage lending. She

[1:31] gets people into homes. But that’s not why we have you here today. We’re here because you’ve had a very impressive journey over the last — what is it, like a couple years, I guess. Terry: A little over two years. Yes. Jason: A little over two years. Excellent. And we noticed. We noticed. Terry: No. Jason: And so we thought that we would have you on the show because I think that you really represent what a lot of people see as that ideal journey from maybe

[2:02] a place where they’re not so happy with their health to a place where they’re really thriving. So, pedal to the metal. Terry: Mhm. Jason: So tell us — I guess just tell us about where you started, and then we’ll talk about where you ended up. Terry: Great. Well, I feel like by nature I’m an athlete. I was young, I was running when I was very, very young in competitions, and I was in gymnastics. I played basketball,

[2:34] softball, even tried out for the Oregon State softball team, but that’s a whole other episode. Jason: Yeah, we are not going to talk about that. Terry: Great story though. It’s a great story. But I identified as an athlete, but the body I was in didn’t fit who I was in my mind. And so I had a weight struggle for about 30 years. I was smaller, thinner, more athletic, you know, in my 20s. And I told people in my 30s and 40s I was still

[3:04] trying to lose the baby weight, even though my daughter was like 20. Jason: Well, in all fairness, I’m still trying to lose the baby weight even though my oldest turns 21 like in a week or something like that. Crazy. Terry: You can only use that excuse for a little while. Jason: Yeah. And I think that’s pretty much isolated to the people that were carrying the baby. Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. But we do have to backtrack because we got to talk about the softball team. Terry: Oh, I don’t know.

[3:35] Jason: Yeah. So Terry, I’m a big Beaver fan. You guys have seen my Beaver logo on the shirts and everything, but I am often called the second biggest Beaver fan that people know, and usually they’re talking about you. And I happen to know that you hold season tickets to just about every sport that Oregon State plays except for one. Terry: That’s correct. Jason: What’s the sport, Terry? Terry: Not only do I not hold tickets to softball, I don’t go to any of the softball games. However,

[4:05] this year I made an exception for one of my co-worker’s daughters who played for Portland State, and I did show up in a Portland State t-shirt. Jason: Ultimate. For you to wear the — Terry: Shout out to Ellie Babbot. Really. Jason: Well, I love it because we both love the Beavers, and I also love pettiness. But you know what’s funny is that my dad, who got us into Beaver sports because he was

[4:36] a huge Oregon State basketball fan back in the 80s — my dad played basketball in high school, played for Pacific, and then when my parents moved around here so they could go to college, he tried out for the Oregon State basketball team under Ralph Miller and Jimmy Anderson. Terry: Yes. Legend. Jason: And my dad got cut, too. Terry: Are you kidding? Jason: Yeah. So I think that’s the part that we miss. So your beef with the softball team is that they didn’t pick you. They had you try out for two long weeks and

[5:08] thought you were going to make that final cut, and then you were cut right off the board. Terry: The last one cut. Jason: Yes. Well, I don’t know if I was the last one cut, but — Terry: The story is better if you’re the last one. Terry: You know, they had like two days — the first cut was at two days, and then a week, and then at 10 days, and then at two weeks was the final cut. Jason: They strung you along. Terry: Yes. Exactly. Kathy: Well, if it makes you feel better, I didn’t make the softball team either. Terry: Did you try out though? Kathy: You forgot that part. Jason: I knew that. I knew I forgot something.

[5:38] Kathy: I would say pettiness justified. Terry: Yeah, absolutely. And I might get over it someday. It’s only been 33 years, so, you know, I might get over it. Jason: Why? What would fuel you then if you got over that? Terry: Probably nothing. Jason: Yeah. Well, I think it’s their loss, right? So maybe one day if they can find a way to bridge that gap, it’ll take them to the next level, because you are a super fan. Terry: Yes, I am. Jason: What was life like before you made your changes?

[6:08] I mean, I was still — I felt like I was still athletic. I played golf. You know, I attended a lot of events. In my mind, I was thin.

Yeah.

But my body just didn’t move the way I thought my mind was.

So I was a food addict. So I just didn’t have any way to stop eating.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, it’s — it sometimes I ate really well, but that wouldn’t last,

Right?

So, you know, I had tried many, many, many

[6:39] different things. You know, I did a lot of research. My husband is in the health field.

And we’ve been married for 20 years.

So he was along that journey with me the whole time. And we had — we tried everything from fasting to, you know, keto to GLP-1s. I had tried just about everything in those 20 years.

Yeah.

Well, and I think that some people, they don’t understand that when you say that you were a food addict,

[7:10] right? And I think some people are probably listening now — or who knows, maybe they’ve turned it off by now.

Yeah. And they’re like, “That’s stupid. That just means that you don’t have any self-control, right?”

But that’s not what it is. Okay. So can you explain what you mean by that?

Yeah. So, during my research, during all this — because I wanted to understand how you could be a food addict, too. You know, I felt like I had a lot of control. I worked a lot. I could control everything else in my life except for that one thing.

[7:40] And so, you know, I did some research about processed food basically. I mean, that’s the best way to say it. I lived off processed food. And I lived off large portions of any types of food

and never felt full, right?

And so basically processed food is an addiction. It’s meant to be addictive just like cigarette smoking. Yeah. As a matter of fact, the people who owned all these tobacco companies bought a lot of those processed food companies — which I will not name — but they purposely made —

[8:12] that’s not how we roll, right? But I’m not trying to blame that. I still had a responsibility, and my responsibility was to find something that would work,

and that’s what we set out on a journey to do,

and that’s what I did. So I found — I wish that GLP-1s

[8:43] — which, if you don’t know what those are, they’re Wegovy or semaglutide, you know, Mounjaro, you know, tirzepatide. So those are just not as accessible if you have health insurance. But my health insurance — it’s cheap everywhere else in the world except for here

and you can get it, but you have to pay a lot of money for it. And my insurance would pay for bariatric surgery. Okay.

Gastric bypass.

I had a choice between a gastric bypass

[9:14] or a sleeve.

Mm-hmm.

And after doing a lot of research, I decided to do the bypass because there were fewer people who had to go back for revisions, and I was only going to do this once,

and that was it.

So I went on a journey to find out about it. There’s a local clinic here that has a weight loss clinic. So I went through that. But once your surgery is done and you get approved for the surgery, there’s not a lot of support,

[9:44] right?

And I found that out the hard way.

Yeah. But you can eat through those things.

You can. And I belong to a lot of support groups online and I see the chat groups and people 18 months out are already gaining weight back. So it’s not a fix forever. You have to — you still have to make the lifestyle changes. And I was adamant that I was going to do this once and that was it. And it was going to work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it’s not like the cravings went away just because your stomach was smaller.

No. And the first time you get sick —

[10:15] which I have gotten sick several times for eating — my Achilles heel is ice cream. Yeah.

So I’ve gotten sick several times after eating ice cream, but I still do it

because it tastes so good. Right.

It’s delicious. It’s delicious.

Are you listening to us? Ice cream. Well,

so you still have to make the changes.

Yeah. And you know, I think — just to backtrack a little bit to the GLP-1s —

they’re controversial. They shouldn’t be. No.

But it’s interesting how —

[10:45] they’re really effective, right? People get really good results. One of the advantages of them is it can turn off what’s called the food noise for people, where — and a lot of times people who are dealing with like some addiction to processed food and stuff like that, they don’t even realize that it’s there. They don’t realize that they’re always thinking about food and it’s tied to like everything that you do — like, oh, we’re having a celebration, we’re having a drive home, we just got home. You know, it’s just like everything’s like snacks.

[11:15] I’m sad about something. I’m sad about something.

I’m happy about something. Yeah. Yeah. And so,

you know, those things are helpful that way, but again, just like you can eat through a sleeve or a bypass, you can eat through a GLP-1, too. So,

Yep. And I was on a GLP-1 for six months in 2021 because there was a coupon. Not very many people were on Wegovy at that time. And my doctor said, “Hey, I want you to try this. There’s a six-month $25-a-month coupon.”

[11:45] I’m like, “Sign me up.” And it was the greatest thing. I didn’t lose a whole lot of weight. I lost about —

and I never went up in doses. So I kind of stayed at the minimum dose during that whole six months.

But then once the $25 coupon ran out, it skyrocketed to about $1,000 a month. Yeah. And I couldn’t afford that. And that’s when I went on the journey to figure out what could I do

[12:15] that could be more permanent.

Yes. Yeah.

Let’s go back to pre-surgery. Like, was there a breaking point? Was there a certain — like, that’s it, I hit rock bottom and this is what I’m doing, I’m going to have this surgery.

Yes. It was in January of 2023. My mom got really sick, and my mom has had health problems pretty much my whole life. You know, she’s had two kidney transplants and has lupus. And so she’s gone through a lot of health journeys, you know, but she got — I believe she was — she got an

[12:45] infection and got septic and then she was rushed to the hospital and it was, you know, because she’s had kidney transplants and was very, you know, so it was not a good time. Right. Kathy: And when she was in the hospital, all I could really think about was what do I need to do to not be sick? And I obviously don’t have kidney disease like she does. So she doesn’t have a lot of control over that. But what do I have control over? Because I am a control freak. Anybody knows that. Jason: Were you just kind of wondering, is this

[13:16] my future? Kathy: Like, no. Yeah, I was wondering that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For other reasons though, things that I brought on myself by eating poorly and not working out the way I wish I could work out. So I — that’s just when I started, you know, going, “What do I need to do first?” And I did that first, you know, online Zoom meeting with the clinic. Jason: Yeah. Kathy: And then it just kind of snowballed from there. It took about a year to get approved for the surgery. A little less than a year. But I had to meet all these, you know, goals. Yeah. And I

[13:47] started at about 262 pounds. Yep. And I just, you know, followed the protocol. And there were many times where I wanted to quit and just say, “Forget it. I’m not going to do it. It’s too hard. This is stupid. There’s not enough ice cream. You know, they want you to do a psych eval that lasted 15 minutes. How do they even know, you know, if I’m going to go crazy or not?” Well, and we already mentioned earlier, yes, you did not lose your mind. Okay. I don’t know why they wanted to do that.

[14:18] But the process was not easy just to get approved. Jason: Right. Did they require you to do therapy? Kathy: They did not require me. I chose to work with a mindset coach. And before surgery, I also chose to work with an acupuncturist. And so I did a lot of things on my own that had nothing to do with the clinic I went through. I got to a point where the only reason I even went through it was because I was going to show them. I was going to show them that they

[14:48] weren’t going to make me quit. Here comes the petty again. Jason: Well, yeah. Right back to your — that’s your superpower is pettiness. I love it. Well, and you know, it’s interesting because I do know that I’ve had patients who have had those procedures and typically they will require you to lose some weight first. Kathy: When I started the program, they didn’t require it, but halfway through that was not a requirement anymore. And both of you guys knew me obviously when I was heavier. I had been in to see Jason many times for problems with

[15:19] my back. Kathy has seen me for my knee, my shoulder, my back, my hips — I mean everything. And you know, they all say — you guys never told me this, but the doctor would tell me that I need to lose weight and I need to lose weight and I need to lose weight. Okay. Sure. That’s not going to solve all my problems. Well, when it comes to the physical part, it did solve all my problems. Jason: Yeah. Kathy: Yeah. Well, I think that’s such an interesting point because we probably hear that all the time, right? People are like, “Oh, yeah, the doctor just says that I need to lose weight.” Which

[15:50] is interesting because there is an association — like back pain, that’s my jam, right? There’s an association between back pain and obesity. However, there is not an association between weight loss and reduced back pain. Kathy: Exactly. That’s what I was going to say too. Like, I agree that there are a lot of very good health benefits from losing weight. There’s no guarantee you’re going to be pain-free, because I see a lot of people who are thin with Jason: Yeah, Kathy: with pain too. So, but at the same time it can relieve certain pains

[16:22] and I do — I still have, you know, I still see Kathy because I still have another issue from losing the weight, you know, which, you know, I hope that if I ever have an opportunity to have plastic surgery — because it doesn’t solve everything, you know, I have other problems like loose skin. And you know, I have lost weight and so now, you know, other parts of my body are just flat. Jason: Yeah, Kathy: but let’s clarify — you did not lose your mind. No. Still,

[16:52] well, that will be determined after this is over. If you think my mind is — Jason: We should get your husband on the show. We should get your husband on the show, you know. Kathy: Scott, can we get him to call in? Is there a call-in option? Can we phone a friend? And I think one of the reasons I didn’t lose my mind is because I did work with the mindset coach. I did do acupuncture. I did have a very, very good support system, which a lot of people don’t have. True, you know — a lot of people’s support system is those Facebook groups, and this

[17:24] is the best place you can get advice — you got problems if those are your best friends, you know. You have to have a good — you have to have a supportive spouse. I see people’s marriages break up. I see people losing friendships because one person lost weight, you know. I see a lot of that on those support groups. Jason: Yeah, no doubt about that. Kathy: I had a very, very tight friend group and my sister who were very, very supportive through the whole process. Jason: Yeah, really important. So, um, and I know like —

[17:57] there are a lot of people that look at these types of issues, this type of problem, and they want to say things like, “Oh, it’s just all about the food,” or, “Oh, you just got to get moving,” or you need more willpower. So, I don’t know — what’s your response to those? Is it just all about the food? Kathy: 90% of it is the food. I’m not going to lie. I have been exercising since day one. The day of my surgery, I was up walking around in the hospital.

[18:27] Day I got home, I had friends coming over, walking in the neighborhood with me. Obviously I didn’t start strength training and doing more cardio until I hit the six-week mark and stuff, but it is about the food. I mean, I hate to say that that’s going to solve everything, but it’s not just about the food short term. Jason: Yes, Kathy: you cannot just be good with food for six months and then lose the weight. This is where my mind changed. This is when I knew I had changed. When I stopped saying, “As soon as I

[18:58] “lose the weight, I can’t wait to have that burger and fries.” As soon as I stopped saying that, I knew my mind had changed. Because the whole time I was trying to lose weight, I was just saying, “As soon as I lose weight, I’m going to have this to eat. Soon as I lose weight, I’m going to have this to eat.” Right. Yeah. What do you think led up to that change where you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I’m not going to have that burger and fries.” I still have burger and fries, but you’re not — but I don’t have an extra large fry and I don’t have six hamburgers in a week,

[19:30] you know. I have half a hamburger every month and I have, you know, 10 fries, you know, but that only started to happen maybe about 3 or 4 months ago. I did not eat like that the first 18 months. I think what really changed was doing it every single day. Mhm. Going to the gym every day, staying on my protein every day, talking about when I was having problems every — I know a lot of my friends and my husband, my sister got tired of hearing me talk about it,

[20:02] but that all helped get me there. It all was a part of the journey. Yeah. Yeah. So, do you feel like you still need all of those things or is there a point where it’s like now I have my own wings and I’m going to fly, or is it very much still staying in that grind, that routine? Is that what keeps you there? It’s actually harder to maintain my weight than it was to lose it. Okay. So, I’ve been maintaining the weight I’m at right now probably for about 3 months and it’s actually been a little bit

[20:32] harder those three months. Yeah, because I can eat things. I have to make more of a conscious effort about what I’m eating than before. Before I had a little bit of restriction from the gastric bypass, so some of that willpower was removed for me because my body was doing it on its own. Had a reaction to it. It’s like this doesn’t feel good. But the last six months, I’ve been able to eat pretty much anything I want. I mean, I can eat everything I want.

[21:02] Ice cream. Ice cream. Ice cream. And I’ve learned now instead of eating the whole ice cream cone that I can only have about five or six licks. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So, not even a whole scoop and it’ll do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I want more. It doesn’t satisfy me. I want more. But I have now learned that I don’t need to satisfy every single craving that I have. There’s a mindset change right there. It’s the craving and it’s that voice in your head

[21:32] that says I need that ice cream and then I need chips after that. Well, and then I got to ask — there are transfer addictions. You know, it’s a big thing — you go from one addiction to another. A lot of people have alcohol addictions. A lot of people have gambling addictions. I prefer the shopping at the Goodwill, at the thrift stores. Yes. You know, I hear one thing that’s good to get addicted to is beaver softball.

[22:02] Yeah. No, no. I’m also addicted to working out. Knows that. I love to hear that. I’m addicted to working out. But one of the biggest mistakes I made was, you know, buying clothes before I had lost all the weight. So, I got stuck with a lot of sizes that I outgrew very quickly. Yeah. And then somebody said to me one time, “Well, why are you buying brand new clothes? Why don’t you go to the Goodwill?” And I’m like, “What? Can I do that? Can I do that?” So, I did. And boy,

[22:34] you mean you went to the Goodwill and they just let you in. Yeah. And then they just let you buy whatever you wanted. And some days the things are 50% off. It’s green sticker day. I have become addicted to shopping at the Goodwill. Now, the good part about that is I do resell my old clothes online on different, you know, platforms online. So, I have — You got a whole ecology going.

[23:05] I have a whole other side gig that helps me support that other addiction. When the mortgages aren’t coming in, then — Yes. Thank god that hasn’t happened yet. eBay site. Gosh. So, I had a patient once who, she would go through this cycle of gain a bunch of weight, lose a bunch of weight, gain a bunch of weight, lose a bunch of weight. And she was really good at losing weight. And that cycle, just so people know,

[23:35] that’s not really healthy. It really wreaks havoc on your metabolism and it raises your risk of chronic disease and all kinds of things. But one of the things that, as we were kind of talking through this, one of the things that she said was that she was just really good at punishing the fat girl in her. So she’s like, “I could get on a bike and I would just like — you’re fat. You’re dumb for getting fat and everything like that.”

[24:05] And she said that she could punish the weight off of her. And that was kind of like an epiphany for me because I don’t think that it’s really possible to hate yourself into a healthy place. No, that doesn’t work. That’s funny — when you were saying that story, the thing that popped in my mind before you even got part of the way through is I was thinking to myself, you cannot shame your way into losing the weight. You just can’t. Can you talk about that some? Because I did the same thing. You know,

[24:36] I thought if I was mean enough to myself, if I shamed myself enough, I would wake up one day and I would finally do it all — have the willpower, have the — you know, and it didn’t work. Yeah. And I’m still working on that. I’m still working on the negative self-talk and, you know, when I eat something wrong or when I miss a day at the gym or something like that, I have to stop myself and say that’s not who I am anymore, you know. It’s not — I’m not

[25:06] boasting and I’m not being, you know, overly conceited. I am just internally not talking to myself that way anymore, right? Yeah. Seems like you’re learning to love yourself again. Yeah. I’m just learning to love who I am now and give that person that lived like that for 30 years a break, you know, forgive them. Yeah. You got to love her. I am. There are times where I’m very sad that it took me this long, because if I

[25:36] could give anybody some advice right now, especially if you’re younger, don’t wait until you’re 50 like me. Do it when you’re young. It’s so much easier. It’s really easy when you’re old. No, it’s not easy. It’s not easy, but it’s easier. It’s easier because I see those people again on my pages that are in their 20s and 30s and I just see the way they recover differently. You know, they just recover differently. They don’t have the same loose skin. You know, when you lose 140 lbs and

[26:08] you’re 50, you’re going to have loose skin. You’re going to have loose skin anyway, but it bounces back a little bit different when you’re in your 20s and 30s. Could you rewind to the part — how much weight you’ve lost? We didn’t even talk about that. 140 lbs. Wow, that’s impressive. More than that, I never had a goal, but I was size 18 and 20 when I started, and I wanted to get to like a six or eight. That was my goal. I didn’t really have a weight goal. But I am now probably a zero or a

[26:38] two. Wow. I know. Like we were hooking you up with a PTCH Podcast t-shirt and I was like, “What size do you want?” And you’re like, “Do you have small?” And I’m like, “No, we don’t have any small.” You’re like, “Do you have extra small?” I’m like, “Okay, Terry, shut up. Shut up.” I think that — yeah, Scott. So some of you are just listening to this. Big mistake. Yes. Big mistake. Big mistake. Yes. Get on YouTube. And also, you can see the video on Spotify. Some people

[27:09] don’t even know that you can. Yeah. But we have before and after pictures of Terry. And it’s only for people who are watching us. So do not wreck your car trying to now pull up the video. Pull over. It’s worth pulling over. Pull over right now. Yeah. Stop your car. Maybe leave the air conditioning on. It’s hot. But yeah. So really, really impressive pictures. Obviously the one on the right is the after. Obviously. Okay. All right.

[27:39] She can’t tell. Yeah. But wow, that’s impressive. Yep. That was the week of my surgery. And that other one was last week, okay, at the golf course. So I still did the things I loved. I love to golf. I still love to golf. I had to change my whole swing. Kathy knows that because, you know, you swing differently when you don’t weigh as much. Yeah. So I suck right now. So you’re golfing like me. Okay. Good. All right. Good. But you know what? Take the pictures.

[28:09] A lot of people are like, “I’m so embarrassed to show this picture.” But that’s what gets me through some of the hard days is going back and looking at those pictures. I wish I would have taken more video. I didn’t take a lot of video. Especially from the waist down. I did do some video and just talking. Yeah. But the pictures is really one way to — that keeps me motivated. Yeah. Going back. Well, because I imagine you can remember what it felt like, right? And so I think people

[28:41] underestimate the power of emotion. Yeah, that sounds like the weakest thing that I could say, but it’s true. Like we don’t do things because it makes sense or because it’s rational. We tend to do things because we feel like doing them. And like when you think about, oh, what am I going to do today or what do I want to do today? It’s about I feel like doing this, not I think I should. I definitely don’t work that way. And so kind of managing that emotion

[29:12] and those feelings and everything like that is really, really important. Yeah. Like one of my favorite things is actually — you don’t follow your mood, you follow the plan, right? My plan is to work out every day. Do I feel like working out every day? Hell no. Oh, I don’t know if I could say that word. Sorry. This week we’re PG-13. Okay. So, no, of course not. I don’t feel like working out. Most of the days I do not feel like working out,

[29:42] but that’s not the plan. The plan is to work out. Well, and I think that when we let the emotions get too much into it and we get out of routine — so routine is another powerful thing because you do a routine, you’re kind of on autopilot. It’s like, okay, these are the things that I got to do. And routine can overpower your emotions sometimes because, yeah, if you only follow your heart. Yeah. You’re in trouble. Big trouble. Yeah. And I think too, as I was

[30:14] listening to you talk, some people may think, “Oh, she took the easy way out because she had surgery.” Let me tell you something. First of all, Terry’s one of my best friends, and I had a big event at my gym about two days after she had surgery, and she still showed up for me, and I still think about that. And she was in tons of pain, very uncomfortable. So if you think this is the easy way out — I saw her from day one and day two, and it was painful. And you’ve had to work at this.

[30:45] Well, first of all, what do you mean I’m one of your best friends? I thought I was your best friend. Yeah, my other best friend probably is listening. Does she have a podcast with you? Just in case my other best friend is listening. And you know, I’ve had people say rude things to me to my face and behind my back about — you know, “Well, I’m going to do it the natural way,” or “I’m going to do it the easy — I’m not going to do it the easy way.” And that’s okay with me. You know,

[31:15] that’s perfectly okay with me because they don’t have to do it my way, right? Yes. I wish I didn’t have to do it my way. I was crying when I was getting wheeled into the operating room because I didn’t want to do it that way. I wanted — You didn’t want somebody to like cut you open, rearrange your guts. I didn’t — I didn’t want that. So, you know, anything anybody said to me — I already thought it in my head. Yes. So nothing anybody can say could have made me feel any worse.

[31:46] You know, it still hurt sometimes, but I know I have people that were in my corner that were supporting me, and when those things came up, they were, you know, talking good about me in those situations. Yeah, it’s been inspiring because I’ve seen — I knew you before and after, and just honestly the way you’ve changed your habits and just how you were talking, like if you stick with the plan. Yeah, when you have really stuck with the plan. Sometimes a little bit too obsessively.

[32:16] Yeah. Yeah. I’m not here to judge. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the thing is, the surgery was not a solution. No, GLP-1s were not a solution. Diet wasn’t even a solution. None of those things were solutions. They’re all tools. And I never even kept it a secret. I was upfront about it — the week before, the months before, the whole time I was trying to get approved. Yeah. I know a lot of people that keep things secret about how they lost weight. “Oh, I worked out every day.” You know, that’s fine. It’s usually influencers because they

[32:46] don’t want to reveal that, yeah, I’m taking a GLP-1, and I’m shaming you into doing my exercise program. And, you know, I’m not saying that I haven’t taken a GLP-1 since then, too. You know, I’ve gone to Mexico. They have good — one of the GLP-1s. But it’s still expensive. So again, it’s not — Well, it’s expensive if you look like you’re from the US. Yeah. I don’t think people —

[33:17] I don’t think people appreciate like the world — GLP-1s are the world’s revenge on the United States, because they’re like, “Oh yeah, hey, you’re in Europe, you want a GLP-1, bro? We got you. Fifty bucks. Yeah, there you go. Oh, you’re from the US? $2,000.” Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that’s such a really good point because there are tools out there and there’s no problem with using different tools. Like I have a lot of patients who are like, “Oh, you need to do carnivore. It’s

[33:47] the only way to lose weight. It’s primal living. Blah blah blah blah blah.” Okay? And it’s like, yeah, you could do carnivore, but you know what happens to most people who do carnivore? They go right back and they put back on all the weight because it’s not really sustainable. And so you can use whatever tools you want to use, as long as they’re legal, moral, and safe, right? But to really change,

[34:17] you have to transform your mind. Yes. And that’s really so difficult. And I think that there’s also layers of forgiveness in there because it’s not going to be perfect, right? There’s setbacks and things like that. So can you tell us a little bit about how you’ve managed some of those setbacks, when you find that maybe you are straying a little bit — and I know that this is still an ongoing journey because, you know, who knows what a year from now is like, or two years from now — like, what are you doing to manage those setbacks, get yourself back on routine, on

[34:49] whatever that word is, routine. Yeah. Well, this is a good time to talk about that because, you know, the Fourth of July just happened, and that was a fun weekend. So much ice cream. So much ice cream. Strawberry shortcake, burgers on the grill, you know, that kind of stuff. But when Monday rolled around, first of all, I didn’t stop exercising. I still kept that routine up no matter what — if I’m traveling. Everybody knows here that I love to travel. I, you know, lived in Vegas for 13 years, so I go back a lot.

[35:21] It’s like one of my food meccas. Great, great place to go eat. Wherever I’m at, I’m still working out no matter what I do. So that part of it — that routine — doesn’t change. The food part, I just have to remember that it doesn’t matter if I fell off or changed my routine for four days, five days, two days, one day — I still can get back on, you know. And even if it takes me two or three days to get back on track, it’s okay, you know. I don’t beat myself up about it like I used to. Yeah, you know, I just don’t —

[35:52] I used to really beat myself up about when I fell off. I didn’t eat sugar for the first eight and a half months. Wow. Yeah. See, that’s incredible. No sugar, no bread. Incredible. Yeah, because I was afraid to get sick. I mean, I’ll be really honest. That’s a good negative. I wasn’t trying to be skinny. I was trying not to get sick. I don’t want that. That should be the title of the episode. And that’s where the surgery really helped, you know. I mean, I was not

[36:22] the type of person that liked to be throwing up. And so that part — some people don’t mind throwing up, so they’ll eat and then throw up, right? Oh, we call that — oh, that’s a — it’s an eating disorder. That’s right. And that’s what scares me about GLP-1s with no supervision from a doctor, because there are people who maybe do have an ED — which is, you know, eating disorder — and then are taking those. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. But I really did it for my health, and I keep doing it every day because

[36:53] I did it for the health of it. For — I did it for the health of it. Now that is a good title. That’s like — when we do get the PTCH Podcast swag store — Yeah. Just for the health of it. Just for the health of it. Yeah. That’s Encore’s logo. Did you know that? Is it? Ah, nice. Okay. You drive — what’s Encore? Okay. Yeah, on the back of all of our shirts. You have one. Yes, I do. We wear it all the time. The health of it. Oh, okay. And here I thought I was being clever. Not anymore.

[37:25] My trademark. Yeah, give me some money, Encore. So I think that you’ve shared so many things that are good and positive, and I know that there’s somebody who’s going to be listening — and I’ve said this about other guests — but there’s kind of a theme where we have people on whose story gives listeners permission to then go out and do it themselves, right? And I think sometimes people just need to hear that

[37:55] Jason: I can do that, right? So — Kathy: Yeah, I hope that they can. And I hope somebody is listening. And I hope that I — Jason: I hope somebody’s listening. Kathy: I hope so, too. Jason: That was the end of my sentence. Kathy: If I had another opportunity to have a different career, I think I would really want to work with people that are going through a weight loss journey and help them with their mindset, you know, because I think that that piece is missing during this

[38:25] journey. Jason: It’s never too late, Terry. Kathy: Yeah. You can become an influencer. Jason: Yeah. No, I don’t think so. Kathy: Well, and we bag on influencers, but there’s a lot of influencers that do a lot of good, right? A lot. And there’s some that are out there doing it evil. And I think the ones who are doing it evil, they’re doing it that way because they don’t understand. Yeah. And that’s another big thing too — there’s some of these health and fitness influencers that get exposed, like it comes out that, oh,

[38:55] I saw this guy at the pharmacy and he’s taking, you know, this or he’s taking that. Jason: Oh, like the Liver King — did you guys see the documentary on Netflix about that guy? You know who I’m talking about? Oh yeah. Liver King is this big, buff guy and he’s all about primal living and everything like that, and he’ll like eat raw liver and raw meats and everything, and he lives on this compound with his — it’s a crazy story, right? Kathy: He’s still alive. Jason: Yeah, he is. But he got exposed because he’s like

[39:25] this big, buff guy and he’s doing all these caveman-style workouts, but he’s also on the juice. Yeah, he’s shooting up. So he got exposed for taking a bunch of steroids. And the sad thing is it hurt his brand. But that’s the crazy thing about the world that we live in — people think that’s the worst thing that could happen: “This will hurt my brand,” right? It’s like, what? We’re just people. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: Well, your great daughter, who is a social media guru, she will tell you Terry will never be an influencer

[39:57] because she hates to post videos. Kathy: Hey, that’s great. Remember when I said I took a lot of pictures but no video? Jason: There you go. I hate that. That’s what it was. Kathy: Well, one thing that I know about you, besides all the wonderful things that we learned, is that you’re fiercely competitive, and we have this tradition of playing a game on every episode. So I have a game for you and it’s like tailor-made for you. Okay. Some of these are related to your health journey. Some of them are

[40:27] related to — I don’t know — the Oregon State Beavers. Okay. Jason: So we’re going to call this game “Bees or BS.” Kathy: All right. There we go. Jason: So I’m going to give you some questions and you’re going to tell me “bees,” which is like kind of like true, or “BS.” Kathy: All right. Jason: We’re going to start with this one. Kathy: Okay. Jason: Once upon a time, OSU’s mascot was actually a live beaver that they would have at the football games, named

[40:57] Bivo. Kathy: BS. Jason: That is actually “bee.” Kathy: Oh my gosh. What year was that? Jason: Many, many years — Kathy: Allowed? Well, it’s probably illegal now. Jason: Yes. Kathy: At the time. Jason: This is before civilization. Kathy: Before civilization. Jason: All right. How about this one? You can’t lose weight if you eat after dark. Kathy: That is BS. Jason: That is BS. Kathy: The only way you can lose weight — the only way — is being in a calorie deficit.

[41:28] Jason: Okay. Kathy: There is no other way. Jason: Mm-hmm. Kathy: However you get to that calorie deficit, there are many ways, but the only way you can lose weight is to be in a calorie deficit. Jason: Right. Very good. And maybe the time of day that you eat makes it easier for you to stay at that calorie deficit. When you eat late, you might overeat and then you go out of your calorie deficit. Kathy: Yes. Yes. But also being super stressed will take you out of your calorie deficit too, because you overeat. Jason: Yeah. Absolutely right. I don’t know anything about stress. Kathy: All right. How about this? The

[41:58] original OSU gym was built by students during lunch breaks. Jason: Oh — bees or BS? Kathy: I’m going to say BS. Jason: It’s “bee-ish.” So Langdon Hall was actually built by student labor. So — Kathy: The lunch breaks part, that was an embellishment. Jason: I thought I saw something that said there were people in the military that helped build. Kathy: Yeah. Well, and OSU was a big military

[42:28] training school. They called it the West Point of the West. So, yeah. Jason: Okay. Kathy: I love this. You guys are just trading — Jason: Yes. This is when we’re going to announce our own podcast. All right. How about this one? Drinking lemon water in the morning boosts your metabolism and flushes out fat. Bees or BS? Kathy: Okay. To start, I’m not a medical professional. I’m not a medical doctor. This is based on the countless things I’ve read. Jason: Yeah. Kathy: And just from my own research,

[43:00] it’s BS, because the only thing that can build metabolism is muscle. Jason: Right. So the more muscle you have, the more your metabolism speeds up and helps you efficiently burn calories and things like that. Kathy: She knows what she’s doing. She knows what she’s doing. In fact, the metabolism thing — people are like, “Oh, as you get older, your metabolism slows down,” which they found breaks down. Jason: True. It’s not true. It’s not true that your metabolism slows down. What happens is you become less active. Kathy: Yes. Yes. As you become less active, then you lose the muscle, and then that’s

[43:32] what makes it seem like your metabolism is slowing down. Jason: And where can you gain muscle? Do you know? Kathy: I think there’s probably only one place in town — Helix, Helix Training. Jason: And Helix was a very, very important and significant part of my journey, especially at the beginning of it. Mm-hmm. So they gave me the confidence to, you know, lift a little heavier, move a little — Kathy: Great trainers. Great trainers. Jason: Sometimes I got mad because they would tell

[44:03] me to do things that I didn’t want to do. Jason: Do you feel like they made you harder to kill? Terry: I’m still alive. So, yes. Jason: There we go. Good. All right. How about this one? Oh, wait. Okay. How about this one? Oregon State was the first university west of the Mississippi to offer a nutrition degree. Is that true or BS? Terry: A nutrition degree. I would say that’s true, because didn’t the maraschino cherry get developed

[44:33] here? Jason: Yeah. Terry: So they obviously had some sort of food program. Yeah. Jason: So it is true. Yeah. Oregon State was one of the first nutrition programs west of the Mississippi. I don’t know what’s going on east, but okay. How about this? If you’re not sore after a workout, it didn’t count. Terry: That is BS. Jason: Thank you. BS. Terry: Absolutely BS. Absolutely. Yes. Jason: You ever not sore after a workout? Terry: Yeah. There’s lots of times I’m not sore. Jason: But it counts. Terry: But it counts. Absolutely. But there’s times where I am sore, too,

[45:04] right? But it just depends on what I’m working out that day. What part of the body? Yeah. Jason: Very good. Um, let’s see. Okay. How about this one? Oregon State has more than 400 student clubs, including a cheese club. Terry: That is true. That’s true. Absolutely. Jason: You are on fire. Terry: It is a real thing. Fuego, as they say. Jason: Let’s do one more. You have to do cardio to lose fat. Lifting doesn’t work. Terry: Actually, cardio is more for your heart

[45:35] and, you know, for longevity, living a good life. But weightlifting is really what’s going to help you build muscle, help your metabolism, help you burn fat, all that yada yada. Jason: Terry, I thought you said you didn’t have a medical degree. Terry: I do not. Jason: I don’t know. I think that we should Terry: fight a lot of things. I lied. Jason: We should give Terry an honorary PTCH Podcast “not a real doctor” degree. Terry: I’m a nard. I’m now a nard. Congratulations.

[46:06] Kathy: All right. Well, Kathy, Jason: yeah. Kathy: Takeaways. Jason: Takeaways, man. Well, you know, when we asked Terry to be on the podcast, it’s mostly — well, she’s my best friend, Kathy: but also Jason: she is my one best friend. Kathy: I have one best friend. Jason: Yes. I just have found her journey, you know, personally inspirational and I wanted other people to hear it and, you know, delving more into it and hearing it today, um, just kind of drives that point home — and how she changed her

[46:36] mindset, I think, for me, um, is one of the big takeaways. Yeah. Jason: Yeah. And I think maybe the big takeaway for me is that we’re talking to you because of what you did with your weight and your health and everything, but I think that what you’re talking about isn’t just for weight and health. It’s it’s for anything that anybody wants to improve or change about themselves. Like if you want to be a better brother or a sister, or you want to be better in any way, I think that

[47:06] the steps that you’re talking about are the key. So I’m not saying like you need gastric bypass in order to become a better mom or anything like that, but it’s it’s intention. It’s routine. It’s caring. It’s overcoming some of those emotions. There’s forgiveness wrapped up in it. And so I think your story is really, really wonderful. And I don’t think that it’s done, Terry: you know, and I think that that’s one — Jason: I still have some things to work on. Terry: That’s right. That’s right. Jason: But I do want to say thank you to Michelle Beaubien. She was the one that

[47:37] helped with my mindset. And she was my acupuncturist before — my daughter, because my daughter now has a PhD in acupuncture and Chinese medicine. Jason: That’s great. Terry: So now she’s my acupuncturist. But yes, I really want to thank them as being part of my circle. Jason: Yeah. Excellent. That is so great. So, anything else — like there’s somebody who’s listening and I think that maybe you have piqued their interest

[48:08] and they’re like, man, maybe I could do something like that. So what would you say to somebody like that to kind of push them over the edge and maybe give them a nudge towards making a change that they need to make? Terry: I would just say on the other side of uncomfortable is the life you’ve been waiting for. Jason: Wow. Yeah. Is there enough space on a shirt to put that? Terry: Yes. Jason: Can we trademark that? Terry: Yeah, he’s got to hit the trademark. Yes, we established that in the past. Jason: It’s not easy, but it’s worth it. Yeah. Awesome. On the other side of

[48:39] uncomfortable is the life Terry: that you’re waiting to live. Are you waiting to live? Jason: Love that. That’s so good. That’s super cool. Well, we’re so lucky to have you here today. So, Terry: thank you for having me. It’s been a lot of fun. I can’t believe how fast that went. Jason: You know what you should do now? You should start listening to our podcast. Terry: I listen to it, and I know — because I was actually mentioned in your very first podcast and you guys didn’t tell me, and when I was listening to it I’m like, oh my god, that’s me.

[49:09] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Most of the people that we talk about would not be thrilled. Terry: No, they do not. Jason: No. But I just bring that up because it would be great if everybody liked and subscribed to the podcast and, yeah, maybe you could get some of these interesting callbacks and Terry: all comments are good. Even if they’re not 100% positive, that’s fine with me. Jason: There we go. There we go. All right. Um, well, gosh, I think there’s just one final piece of

[49:40] business to handle. What is it, Kathy? Kathy: There’s no “I” in PTCH.