The Hidden World of Athletic Training with OSU’s Bryan Painter

Jason: All right. You ever spend 36 years doing a job where your co-workers are a bunch of teenagers, the stakes are high, and no one ever says thank you?

Kathy: Yeah. That’s not called a career. That’s called being a high school athletic trainer.

Jason: That’s right. Today, we’re talking to Brian Painter, and he just retired after 36 years on the sidelines at Corvallis High School. Go Spartans.

Kathy: Spartans.

Jason: Yes. He’s got the tape, the tears, and the stories to prove it. From Friday night lights to 6 a.m. ice baths, this guy’s seen it all.

[0:30] Kathy: All right, this is the PTCH.

Jason: What happens when a chiropractor and a physical therapist get together to make a health and wellness podcast?

Kathy: But chiropractors and physical therapists don’t like each other.

Jason: Oh, think again.

Kathy: I’m Dr. Kathy Lynch, physical therapist who likes to help people move and get stronger.

Jason: I’m Dr. Jason Young, an evidence-based chiropractor who uses humor just as much as adjustments to help people get better. Welcome to the PTCH Podcast. Remember, there’s no I in PTCH. Okay. Well, today’s guest is someone who

[1:01] defines what it means to show up for decades. I think that when I asked you to be on the podcast, you said, “For what?” And I said, “Well, we’ve just never had anybody as old as you on the podcast.” So, yeah, we had somebody a little bit older, so you’re fine.

Brian Painter recently retired after an incredible 36-year career as the head athletic trainer at Corvallis High School. He’s been a steady hand on the sidelines, the first responder when things go wrong. He’s a trusted mentor to generations of Spartan

[1:33] athletes. I think he cringes when I say generations. It’s five generations now, right? Five decades that he’s touched.

And he didn’t just keep kids taped and ready. He helped build a culture of care, toughness, and integrity. So, Brian is a certified athletic trainer through the NATA and a respected member of the Oregon healthcare community. He’s also part of the sports medicine team at Beaver Sports Medicine. Yes. Here in town.

Kathy: And he’s collaborated with

[2:03] physicians, surgeons, physical therapists, and he’s helped to care for elite level athletes. But if you ask him, I think one of the things that he’s proudest of is the relationships with coaches, connections with the kids and the families and everything like that. He’s been called the glue guy of Corvallis athletics. And not just because of the tape,

Jason: right? So, we’re so happy to welcome the legend himself, Brian Painter. So, thank you for coming on.

[2:33] Brian: Thanks for having me, guys. This is a pretty neat deal.

Jason: Yeah, pretty cool.

Kathy: Okay, and that’s the show.

Jason: That’s it.

Kathy: Run the closing credits. That was great. Yes. Thank you, Brian.

Brian: So far,

Jason: that was easy.

Kathy: Yeah. So, I think one of the — we talked a little bit before the show. I think it would be great if you told everybody about your name. Like, do the kids even know you as Brian?

Brian: No, none of the kids know me as Brian. It’s over the years — for what — it started when I started

[3:05] Corvallis High School when I was 22 years old.

Kathy: Wow.

Brian: Right. And back then it was, you know, you just call people by their last name. And then over the years, it just kept going and kept going. And like I said, parents don’t even know my first name. They’ll call me, “Is this Painter?” Like, call me Brian. And it, you know, just — that’s, you know, it’s evolved over time. And that’s, you know, where we’re at.

Jason: Yeah. So, I help coach the girls

[3:36] basketball team and that is an off-heard question. Anybody seen Painter? Is Painter coming in today? When will Painter be here? Can I call Painter? Can you call Painter? So,

Kathy: well, you said the people eventually dropped the T.

Brian: Yeah, there’s no — kind of there’s no T. “Pain-er” and you know, “Is this Pain?” Is that now a nickname because you cause pain on us kids? Actually, funny story — last year, Hunter Biviano, our JV boys basketball coach, had a play

[4:06] called out that sounded like my last name and I can’t remember exactly what it was, but

Jason: I can’t remember honestly, but every time he yelled it I was looking around — I go, “Hunter, we got to change the name of this because you’re freaking me out. Is everybody okay?

Brian: Yes.

Jason: Am I needed on the court?

Brian: No,

Jason: it’s just an out-of-bounds play. Right.

Kathy: Yes. Exactly.

Jason: So, tell us how you got into this. Like, when you were just like a little baby Painter, did you want to be an

[4:36] athletic trainer?

Brian: No. I went to Creswell High School. We didn’t have athletic trainers, you know. I had no idea. As I remember — again, 30 — well, that’s even farther back than that because you got to throw in college — there, 40 years ago. I thought I was going to be an architect.

Jason: Okay.

Kathy: Wow.

Brian: Or, you know, house design or something like that. You know, I was doing the drafting and taking all those classes at the high school and this recruiter came along and kind of recruited me and my buddy to go down to

[5:06] Arizona, in Phoenix, and go to this drafting school.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

Brian: And he’s kind of promising me, “Yeah, there’s not really any math. You’re okay,” you know, and

Jason: because I’m not very good at math. That’s what they told me about chiropractic school. Yeah,

Kathy: there will be no math.

Brian: So, we bought into it. We get down there and the very first day there’s a math test. It’s a placement test.

Jason: Oh no.

Brian: And I struggled and I’m just going, man, I lasted two weeks. I’m out. I’m out the door. I can’t do this. Too much. And I was a little homesick, too.

[5:37] Had a girlfriend up here. And so I came back.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

Brian: But I knew I needed to go to college and I just started looking through the curriculum guide at Oregon State. I knew I wanted to go to Oregon State.

Jason: Yeah.

Brian: I thought UofO was too close to Creswell and I’d be home every other day.

Jason: And also, boo. Yes, that’s — yes. And I’m very, very, you know, glad I came up here. But I just saw — I knew I liked athletics.

Kathy: Wasn’t sure — maybe, do I become a PE

[6:08] teacher slash coach? Do I become a strength coach? And I come across athletic training. What is this? You’re on the sidelines. You’re, you know, you’re taping ankles. Whoa. This is for me. This is for me. I’m going to Oregon State and this is what I’m going to do. Cool. And that’s where it started. I almost got out after my freshman year. We were allowed to do some observation hours in the training room. I went way above and beyond because they had spring drills going on. I just loved all that and I spent a lot of extra hours there.

[6:39] Well, in the summertime, I thought, well, is this really what I want to do? Just maybe I was considering. First day of school comes around. I wait a couple of days and I decided to walk down to the training room and Michael San Diego — Sandy — pulls me aside. Can I talk to you? And I thought I was in trouble. I said, “Oh, great. I didn’t come in the first day. They’re upset with me.” And he pulls me in the office. He goes, “Hey, we’re short some numbers. I was hoping you could be my student athletic trainer for men’s basketball.” Oh, yeah.

[7:09] And they didn’t let sophomores do that back then. And I was just, are you kidding me? Yeah. He’s throwing out, you know, we’ll get you some gear, you’ll sit on the bench during games, you’ll be at all practices, you’ll get some comp tickets for your friends. Wow. I’m in. Never look back. Who’s on the team then? Was that Gary? Gary Payton. That’s what I was going to say. Yeah. Gary Payton’s freshman year. Eric Knox, Earl Martin. Jose Ortiz. I mean, I was just — Evan. Oh my gosh. That’s super because I mean this is going to freak

[7:39] you out but I was like that’s got to be Gary Payton because I was in middle school when Gary Payton was playing so that tracks. Yeah. Yeah. That was the sit-and-reach days. Yes. Middle school. Yes. You probably just heard of me in the community because you’ve been in the community a while. I have. Like lots of people know about my center prowess. Okay. I did a little — we had Jen and Nicole on, right, the yoga studio — and I was doing a

[8:10] little lecture there on injuries and stuff and I actually did a forward fold and put my palms on the ground and everybody in the studio gasped, right? Like, I don’t know if they were impressed or if they were wondering if we should call an ambulance. Yeah. Was it your hamstrings that gasped? No, it was the people, I’m pretty sure. But they were like, “Wow, that’s so good.” And I was like, “Yeah, well, you know, Highland View Middle School record holder, so I don’t know what to tell you guys.” Yeah, just bright things in my future.

[8:42] Oh, that’s great. Okay, so did the thing with the basketball team at OSU. And then you knew that this was the job for you. That was my career right there. That was no doubt. So, how’d you get from there to Corvallis High School? Well, I thought — I had a summer internship with the Seattle Seahawks. Sandy was friends with the head athletic trainer at the Seahawks at the time.

[9:12] He’d done a few and he got me in to talk with them. And so the problem was the internship was like the first week of training camp in August till like the end of September, and then I asked Sandy what do I do after that? He goes, well, you don’t have a job. Yeah. So what, okay, now what do I do for nine months? Do I go get a job at McDonald’s or something and wait till the next job opens up?

[9:42] So I decided — he said, well, you’re not a chiropractor, you don’t do that. Exactly. So the Crescent Valley — and I promised I wasn’t going to say that word anymore, but that school in Lewisburg. Oh, yes. North Corvallis — was open. Yes. And I thought, well, maybe I better get a job first. I wanted to make a little bit of money, too. So I actually did not do the Seahawks internship.

[10:12] I went out and applied for the Crescent Valley job. And halfway through — well, probably at the end of the interview — he goes, “Well, I’m going to hire Jenny Mataloa from Corvallis because she can teach a course over here.” I didn’t have a teaching certificate. I kind of wondered, well, why did you interview me for an hour and then tell me you knew what you were going to do, but I said enough that he said — that’s what they do over there — I’ll call over to Larry Turner and tell him to hire you. Oh, okay. And all of a sudden I perked up. “Whoa, Corvallis, this is

[10:43] big time. Big time.” You know, all the championships that have been won. And I knew about Corvallis’s history even back at Creswell, you know. You hear about them winning all the football and baseball and basketball titles and stuff. So I was ecstatic and I literally went over to Corvallis to interview and he basically shows me around the place. Yeah. And that’s it. He didn’t really ask any questions. Sweet. He just shows me around and he goes, “Well, I’m going on vacation for 6 weeks.” This was the end of the school year. We got to wait for the

[11:15] district to make it official. So for 6 weeks I kind of was like, what do I do? If I don’t get this job, now I’m really in trouble. I turned down the Seahawks thing and I don’t have this job. So I waited till that first Monday back in early August and I called Larry. He goes, hey, did you come get your keys? I go, did I get the job? Yeah, you got the job. I go, “Oh, you told me you had to wait for the district.” Oh, that’s an informality. That was never a concern. I go, “Well, I didn’t know.” So anyway,

[11:47] I got the job and that was a blessing. That was — to me that was — Wow. I would have taken the other job, but to land there. Sure. So what I’m hearing is that there is an alternate universe with a Payton running around in maroon and gold saying, “Go Rams” — not look good in those colors. No. No. But there’s also an alternate universe where there’s a Payton running around in maybe yellow and green or, you know,

[12:17] or blue and green, or maybe he’s designing your house. Jason: There is that architect maybe. Yeah, that’s — yeah. What ifs, right? Kathy: Podcast multiverse edition. That’s — Jason: Oh my gosh. Wow. So, this is so interesting. So that was 1989. So I think that’s the year that my family actually moved to Corvallis. And so my sisters actually — Kathy: Oh, I know. Sherry. Jason: Yeah. Yeah. So I have two sisters

[12:50] that did sports here. I don’t — I don’t know if my oldest sister did. I think that she just did it back in California. But yeah, so Sherry — that was my introduction to you. I knew that you were Sherry’s trainer. And to be honest with you, I didn’t know what a trainer was then either. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: But yeah, she would say, “Trainer, trainer, trainer.” Like, “What’s a trainer?” Kathy: Yeah. But yeah, she’s a triple jumper. And Jason: Yes, absolutely. Very good. And they won the state title my first year there. 1990, girls state champs. And so she was part of that. And actually, I know your

[13:20] dad. Jason: Yeah. Kathy: Back in the days at the old Corvallis Fitness Center. Jason: Oh yes. And Jean would come work out a lot, but he would also come over to the track, and I think to this day still gets out a little bit. Kathy: He does. Jason: So I still see him a little. Kathy: And it’s kind of funny because he’ll be out there like walking the track, and when my daughters were there, they would be like, “Oh, hi.” And he’d talk to them and everything like that. And my kids are mixed — like my wife is white — so their friends would be like, “Why are you talking to that old black guy?” Right.

[13:50] In this community, that’s not what they say. No. But that’s what they’re thinking, right? “Why are you talking to that old —” that gentleman of any ethnicity, right? And they’re like, “Oh, that’s my grandpa.” And they’re like, “What?” Okay. But yeah. Yeah. So, well, yeah. But I think it’s incredible — the kind of impact that you’ve had over the years. And you

[14:21] kind of get to see gener— like my kids. Kathy: Yes. You’ve worked with — Jason: Yeah. Have you seen grandkids? Kathy: Not yet. Did you get out right before they’re — and Matt and those guys? I am done when I see a grandkid, for sure. But we ran into second generations quite a bit, you know, and obviously with you, Jason — Randy Silver was my first freshman class and his son is now my last class and stuff. Wow. Yeah. Wow. You know, and going back to getting the job, I thought I’d only

[14:52] be at Corvallis High a couple years. You know, I’m going to go up to bigger and better things. I want to get into the pros and stuff. And it just kept getting better and better. Corvallis is — this is a pretty nice place to live, especially in the summertime. And then you start, you know, you meet your wife and you start having kids and then it’s like, okay, now I’m just entrenched there. And no regrets, right? I had several opportunities to go other places and I turned them down when I

[15:23] really came down to deciding what I really want to do. Jason: Mm-hmm. When you got a good thing. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: Do you have any good memories from the early early years? Kathy: Oh, yes. And we just — we talked about this last week, but Ron Sather, our wrestling coach — when I first got there, you know, I don’t know anybody, right? Jason: Ronster. Kathy: The Ronster. Yeah. He’s coaching wrestling and it’s wintertime obviously, and he sends a kid down and the kid goes, “Coach thinks I strained my aorta.”

[15:56] Jason: What? Kathy: So I grab — like you — I grab the blood pressure cuff and I’m checking his pulse and I’m going, “Well, are you — ” I’m going through all the signs and symptoms potentially of what a strained aorta might be. Jason: Well, you should fill in people that are listening. They don’t know what an aorta is. Kathy: Yes. The aorta is like the main artery of your body, right? That comes right off the heart. Jason: Sends oxygenated blood out to your body and stuff. Kathy: Pretty deep in there. Jason: That’s pretty serious, right? Kathy: Yeah. We don’t even stretch that. Jason: No. Kathy: No. Jason: We don’t. We don’t.

[16:26] So I’m going, “Okay, chest — is it painful?” No, not at all. Okay, is it off to the side? You know, he hurts down here. And he points to his ankle. I realize I’ve been had. I’ve been had. But that was the start of what made it so great to be there with the coaches and stuff. The fact that this coach doesn’t know me and played a little joke on me, right? And I go up there to the wrestling room and he’s just laughing. And

[16:57] I go, “Don’t do that. That scared the daylights out of me.” But I got him after that. That’s who he was, right? And still is, right? So that was early on and stuff. And you know, you’re 22 years old and you don’t want to miss anything. That’s, you know, that was kind of embedded into you — you don’t want to be that guy who missed something. So there were some times when we had some kids with asthma attacks that actually are very serious if gone too long without being treated right.

[17:28] And there was, you know, we had a kid — a cross country runner — had one, and about 20 minutes into it, we can’t control it. Jason: Mm-hmm. Kathy: So called the mom and dad, “Hey, we need to get him up to the hospital,” and it turned out everything was good and no problems. And then, you know, there’s a couple other times where a kid was having an attack and, you know, hurts on the left side, got a little bit of left arm pain. Okay. Is this a spleen injury? Jason: Yeah. Kathy: You know, getting the referred pain, and

[17:58] you send them up. No, just an asthma attack. Okay. So you kind of do that when you’re young like that. You get a little older — okay, I know how to triage it, I know the difference. Jason: I know what you mean. It’s like you see red flags everywhere in the beginning. Kathy: Yes, you do. Jason: And it’s got to be a little stressful because you’re dealing with somebody else’s child. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: And that’s a great point. That’s the number one thing I try and teach other athletic trainers — what parents want from you. Oh, really good point. Kathy: And that’s safety. They want to know

[18:29] that they can drop their kids off at the school, drive away, and know that they are safe, right? Whether it’s in the classroom or on the football or any athletic fields, right? That they are going to be safe. And that’s — Yeah. You take that equation out and — Yeah. — things are pretty darn easy. Yeah. Yeah. As you were talking, I was just thinking about how things probably have changed so much. I don’t know why this came to my mind, but like how has treatment of concussion changed since you started? Like, we were doing

[19:01] smelling salts back in the day. The ammonia. Yeah. Get out there. Hey, he just got his bell rung. He’s a real football player now. Yeah. We didn’t have protocol back then, right? We didn’t have impact testing. You know, the baseline scoring. We didn’t have SCAT testing, all this stuff that was implemented now. Basically, do you have a headache? Well, two out of 10. All right, you’re good. Yeah. Yeah. Go back out and play, right? Like, hey, can you get back in there? Yeah. Yeah.

[19:31] And it started evolving, right? It started — okay, we’re getting more awareness, you know, education’s coming along. We’re picking that up. And so now, I can’t even begin to know what years. Mid-90s. Okay, let’s now run them through some physical fitness tests to see how they respond, you know, a couple of days after getting hit in the head. But you certainly weren’t sending them to the doctor back then. You just like, yeah, we’ll treat this conservatively with rest and right — and start progressing them back into

[20:03] play. And now we’re doing computerized testing, you know, balance testing, sending them to doctors, and we have Max’s Law — right — you know, we have to follow, and for good reason. What’s — can you — yeah. Oh sorry, that’s the one where a physician has to return to play, right? Or — yeah, more than just a physician — physical therapists can do that, chiropractors, there are PAs and stuff that can clear them. Max’s Law — he

[20:37] was an athlete on the Oregon coast. I don’t even want to say what school, but had a head injury. They were treating it, treating it. And he wasn’t responding well. I think he played even in some games. I could be wrong on that specific, how that played out. You know, it’s been around for a while now, but had some complications. But the good thing is he’s healthy and he — nothing

[21:07] happened bad — but it was enough to get some legislation going that we need to make sure that we’re just not — okay, no headache and you can go play, or if you have a one out of 10, go play. So now if you suspect a concussion, you have to pull them from that activity that day. Mhm. And the next 24 hours, right? So if someone got hit in the head and they don’t feel like they felt prior to

[21:37] that, we pull them out, we rest them, we do a neurocognitive test with ImPACT before the season starts. Got a baseline, retest them, see how they do. We do some balance testing. We do some other things — signs and symptoms — and once we can get them into normal pre-injury state at baseline, then we send them to the physician, or whoever can provide clearance for them, and get them

[22:08] signed off. Well, and concussions are a real tricky thing because it’s mostly subjective things, and so it’s mostly like how are you feeling, and it’s really — I mean, we know what the injury is, but there’s a whole bunch of different looks for a concussion, and so it gets really tricky. And it’s one of the more serious injuries that you can have in terms of the risk, but you can’t see it — right — like if I sprain my knee I get a swollen knee, or I get a black

[22:39] eye. You can see that. And so it’s really easy — a kid can look, or just anybody can look really pretty normal, but still be walking around with a concussion. Or what about the kid who doesn’t want to miss a game and fakes his symptoms and knows just enough to tell you — Exactly. We’ve had some kids over the years. I’ll sit there and start an evaluation and the kid will whisper in his ear, “Tell them you don’t have a headache.” I can hear you. I’m right here.

[23:09] Yes. You know, so they think — they have to start evaluating that other kid too. Are you really this dumb? ImPACT and neurocognitive testing has actually got a foolproof thing in there for kids who would try intentionally failing the test. So if they ever got a concussion, got tested, maybe they’ll look normal. So they’ve got some built-in parameters to — nice — prevent that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like — I know one basketball game my son got his bell rung, and I really appreciated the way that you dealt with him. And I know that he was frustrated because he didn’t think that he had a concussion, and I really appreciated the conversation that you and I had whenever you were like, “Look, we’re just going to err on the side of caution here because it’s really not worth it to —” I remember when I was in middle school — this is back in my middle school — alright, glory days. Glory days. Let’s — the glory days. Highland Scotty Dogs. Okay. We were playing a

[24:14] game in Scio, which is — Scio, spelled S-C-I-O — stands for “smallest city in Oregon.” I’ve never heard that before. Yeah, I don’t think that’s really true, but anyway. Yeah, I was there. I was playing football and I took a — I’m going to say that I gave a big hit because there’s no video footage, so this is my story, right? So I hit somebody and it was lights out. The next thing I remember is waking up in my bed the next day. And so was I passed out that whole

[24:45] time? No. I played the rest of the game. I got a ride home from my friend’s mom. And so that’s — like I think about that all the time whenever I think about concussions, because it’s like nobody knew. I could have been in real danger if I would have taken another hit. Unfortunately, I was not fast enough to really catch kids, and so there was little chance there was going to be another — very little danger. Yeah. Well, and I remember the story. Chris Miller played professional — or played

[25:17] in the NFL — quarterback from Sheldon High School. So I knew when I was in high school. But he’d had so many concussions in college and NFL, probably some in high school, too. Reading articles about how he’d be driving home in his home city and had to stop and pull over and call his wife and goes, “I don’t know how to get home.” Kathy: Oh, yeah. Jason: Jim McMahon had a story like that, too. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: And so I always put it with parents, you

[25:47] know, because some parents are, “We got to win this game. We need my son or daughter in the game.” You know, it’s — you got one brain. Kathy: Mm-hm. Jason: You’ve got two ankles, you got two knees, two shoulders — we can deal with that, right? But the brain is not replaceable. And that always helped with parents. Kathy: Okay, that makes sense. Jason: Yeah. Yeah. So have you — well, let me ask you this, because I know I get a lot of parents who ask my opinion on

[26:18] football, right? And it’s because of my background with treating athletes and everything like that. They’re like, “So, what about football?” Like, “My kid should not be playing football because of concussions, right?” And I think that people don’t understand that. Is football the only sport that you can get a concussion? Kathy: I knew you were going with this. Jason: And I have documents — evals of our concussions. And it’s way

[26:48] more in soccer. Kathy: Yes. Jason: Why is that? It’s because it’s the only sport where they teach you to use your head as a tool to propel a ball. Kathy: Yes, and they don’t have a helmet. Jason: And we’ve — over the years too in football, we’ve gone away from the head-down spearing — a penalty and potential ejection, too many unsportsmanlike, or helmet-to-helmets. Kathy: Helmet-to-helmets, right, and that can get you ejected. Jason: So we’re teaching heads-up. No more

[27:19] hitting with the helmet. Tackling has changed. It’s gone to that rugby-style tackle where you kind of grab the guy and you twirl him down. Kathy: Whereas, like you just said, Jason, in soccer, you’re teaching kids that, and they’re taking headers Jason: ten to fifteen of them in practice a day. Kathy: Just in practice. Jason: Yeah. With nobody else going against them. We had a coach several years ago — in soccer, we had a girl get a concussion. We’d gone through all the steps. She’s been cleared. “Hey, Coach,

[27:49] can we leave out headers for her?” And he goes, “Yeah, we can do that. Keep her out of practice. We can’t guarantee in a game, right? Nobody can guarantee that you’re not.” And for the most part, taking a header where you’re supposed to take it, we don’t have a lot of concussions. That’s when the kids aren’t prepared for it — it hits the side of their head, or they just get kicked in the head from the side. But I even brought up, “Hey, what if we just take out headers out of practice?” And he snapped. “Are you kidding me? That’s part of soccer. We

[28:19] can’t —” blah blah blah blah. All right. Okay. No doubt. Soccer is the number one. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: Well, and like I used to coach volleyball, and I remember I had a kid who got a concussion that was bad enough that she was out for six weeks. Do you want to know how she got it? It was when we took a water break. She stood up, she was walking across the court, she ran into — Kathy: You’re going to make me laugh. Jason: She ran into the cart that had the ball machine on it, and she just

[28:51] — dong — right. Six weeks. Kathy: And so it’s like — there’s lots of ways to get concussions. I tell people there’s lots of ways to get concussions. You can get concussions not in sports. Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Kathy: Sports are definitely a leading cause of concussions, but one of the things that has evolved, as you said, is the education — I think it’s just been really key and it’s changed everything, and hopefully made things safer. Jason: Yeah, it’s a brain injury. Kathy: It is, plain and simple. Yeah. Jason: And according to you, I only get one of

[29:21] those — one brain. Kathy: Yes. Jason: Okay. And I always tell you — well, that’s not what they taught in chiropractic. Kathy: No. PT school, they tell you — Jason: when you’re 40, you want to be able to find your way home. And I brought that story up many times to parents. Kathy: That’s true. Jason: You scare them straight. Kathy: It’s important. It’s a good tool. Jason: Yeah. Oh. So, just kind of as an aside, because you alluded to this earlier, and we talked a little bit about this before — how many championship teams have you been a part of

[29:51] in your time at Coral High School? I think it’s 18. It might Kathy: Wow. Jason: maybe be 19 now with boys golf this year. And we had — I’m not taking anything away from golf and tennis, because those are team sports and those are great — those are championships. There’s nothing wrong with them whatsoever. But we have a lot of them in those sports, right? Probably eight or ten. And again, great accomplishments. We got a couple basketball — boys basketball. We got a football, we

[30:23] got girls track and field, we got a volleyball one in 2018. So Kathy: yeah. Jason: Wow. You know, spreads — three soccer. Kathy: You know, I just wanted to lowkey flex on behalf of the Spartans, so it’s good. Jason: Yeah. There’s nobody from North Corvallis listening to the podcast. Kathy: No, they don’t listen. Jason: Yeah. So, okay. Funniest or weirdest injury you’ve had to treat? Kathy: Great question. I mean, because I always get the question, what’s the most serious injury you’ve ever seen?

[30:54] I think it has to be — we’ve had many ACLs, we’ve had — Jason: I hate to say a dime a dozen, but we’ve seen that, right. Kathy: We’ve had some fractures of the tib-fib, but the one that really sticks out is a soccer player from Woodburn comes to me after the game, and he asks for some ice, you know,

[31:24] Something for his — he, his, his — his toe hurt. Well, you got — let’s take your shoe off, because you’re not going to be able to put any ice on there. You know, after the game he played, take his shoe off. Well, his sock is bloody. Is that blood there from before? He goes, “No, take his sock off.” And one of his toes had a compound fracture, where the bone literally snaps, breaks, and goes through the skin. Right. Yeah. And I go, “When did this happen?” He goes, sometime in the game.

[31:54] Oh my gosh. And he just kept playing. It’s like, wow, whoa, that’s a pretty big deal. We know — I don’t know that it’s life-threatening. We need to go to the hospital tonight. But, you know, we called the parents and said, you know, this needs to be taken care of. You’re like, what you might want to do later on tonight is take his shoe, shake it a little bit, see if there’s a toe in there. I know. That’s right. You’re looking for all their bone pieces. Oh my gosh. That’s — that’s kind of the weirdest. That’s — yeah, that’s very

[32:24] tough, right? I guess so. That — that was probably, you know, that — that was strange. Oh my gosh. So, a couple of years ago — this is one of my one of my favorite memories of painter. We were playing — um, can’t remember what school was visiting us — and there was a pretty gruesome fracture, and I’ll never forget the care that you took of this young lady. We had actually stopped the game, and I think we eventually called the game off. We did.

[32:54] Yeah. But what he did when he went over to the girls — the first thing he did is try to calm her down. Yeah. Right. And it was just really heartwarming, and he just kind of took a towel and just kind of slowly pulled it up over her leg so that she couldn’t see it, her teammates couldn’t see it, so people wouldn’t freak out. Like, he didn’t freak out. He just calmly went over there. It was a pretty gruesome fracture. And so that’s — I’ll correct you just a little bit. Not a fracture, a dislocation. Sorry, dislocation — but a true knee dislocation.

[33:24] Oh, so femur-tibia, not the patella. I put those back into place like no problem. But yeah, when you hear about — and so I’ll go back a little bit — talk about that. The year before we’re up at state wrestling at the Memorial Coliseum. There’s 16 mats, I think, going on. Maybe 20 mats of wrestling going on. And a kid dislocates his knee. True dislocation. And it was off to the side, so I wasn’t right there involved. The — an orthopedist was there and

[33:56] I — I know we brought in — we had chiropractors there because that school up there would provide assistance at states. Yeah, Western States would be there too. Harvard of chiropractic colleges. Is it really? Definitely. Is that where you went? I don’t know where anybody went. So yes, the Harvard school. That’s awesome. Now, now you remember, right? Chiropractic, right? That’s it. Well, they — so we were well covered there and

[34:26] the orthopedist there did reduce it. Mhm. And we sent them by ambulance up to the hospital and they did their thing for a couple hours, and they were from Medford. So the parents, “We’ll take him home tonight.” And by the time they got to Medford, his knee was probably the size of a basketball. Oh jeez. Mom and dad go, “This isn’t right.” They take him over to the hospital there. They end up life-flighting him back to Portland, and they had to amputate. Oh, were you kidding? Yeah. From the knee down. And

[34:56] so that stuck — you hear those things. Okay. And so when you see it for the very first time, and this athlete was the first one we’ve ever had at Cross High with a knee dislocation — like Kathy said, you’re — I might have looked calm, but I wasn’t inside. And we’d called 911, and so the EMTs show up, and I think he thought it was probably a patella dislocation. He’s like, “Yeah, exactly.” You know, you’re calling us for that. Yeah. And he starts looking around. Okay, this is a little bit more serious.

[35:26] Let’s get the IV going and stuff. But yeah, you — you do the right things, and it’s not necessarily about the athlete, too. It’s about protecting your other students, because they see that — well, they go into shock. I don’t think — someone else passes out and stuff. So yeah. So that’s why you do that kind of stuff. And yeah. Yeah. Some of her teammates saw her before you got there. And so that — I think eventually what led us to, you know, they were crying — eventually led us to kind of

[35:57] cancel the game at the time. But yeah, when you have a serious injury like that and you — like you even see it in like college football games, somebody gets carted off in an ambulance, it changes the rest of the game. It really does. Yeah. And it affects me, you know, when we have had to call an ambulance, and you’re just going, okay, could I have done this better, or what could we have done differently? Yeah. Mhm. Well, and I think one thing that’s maybe underappreciated is it is a really

[36:29] broad skill set that athletic trainers have, right? Because you’ve got to be able to do a little bit of everything. So, certainly whenever you’re working — so like at a college level, when you’re working with Oregon State, there’s a really big kind of support system there. And so it’s like you can compartmentalize a little bit more. It’s like, yeah, I can just focus on men’s basketball or whatever, and I’m just taping a lot of ankles and things. But the further and further you get from a bigger and bigger organization to

[36:59] something that’s smaller and smaller, the more and more you have to do, right? So like now you are the EMT, you’re the first responder, you have to help kids with things like nutrition, and you’ve got to be a little bit of a psychologist because, you know, these are teenagers — or psychopaths — and you’ve got to be looking at things like mental health and things like that. And athletes have complex situations. They’re not like everybody else, because there are different expectations and pressures. And so, how

[37:29] much of that would you feel like they really kind of train you and prepare you for, and how much of that do you kind of learn on the job? Well, I think nowadays there’s a lot of training. One, it’s a master’s program instead of an undergraduate program, you know, and 36 years ago, things have changed. But more importantly, I think the high school athletic trainer job is the hardest there is versus collegiate and professionals. Yeah. The professional level, I mean, you’ve got an MRI unit at your disposal anytime

[38:00] you want. You got X-ray right there, right? You’ve got team doctors just waiting there. And same with the university — you’ve got Samaritan Athletic Medicine right there. They got the X-ray over there, and doctors galore over there. And you’re able to just push those kids through and stuff. And where I’m more of a kind of a gatekeeper. I got to make some decisions. Do we send this up for an X-ray? Do we get them in? Is this overkill or is this what? Um, so

[38:30] well, and I think we should point out that it’s not even just for the kids that you know. There’s a lot of times when you’re taking care of the kids on the other team too, right? Absolutely. Because they don’t bring their own. Usually in football you have a traveling athletic trainer, but yeah — basketball, wrestling, any other sport. Exactly. And you don’t know this kid, you don’t know his “10 out of 10.” Is it really a 10 out of 10 or is it really a 1 out of 10? Right. But yeah, and it goes beyond — I won’t say the scope because it is part of the scope — but you know, nutrition, all that stuff, but um

[39:03] there’s what people would expect. Yeah, I guess. Well, and there are times when a kid will walk in and say, “Can I talk to you privately?” And I have to stop and say immediately, you know, that if you say something I have to tell you that I’m a mandatory reporter. So if I hear something that I feel like I need to report, I have to. And I want to say every time that’s happened, the kids have said, “Okay, fine. Let’s talk.” And part of it is they just need to get it off their chest. Yeah. And they tell me some stuff and I go, “Oh boy,

[39:34] I got to go report this.” And then that gets put in the proper hands and stuff, because I’m not a psychologist and there’s, you know, a counselor and that kind of stuff. So I’m there just to hear. They just need a voice or a person to say it to, right? Somebody they trust. Someone — yeah. And then I take it to the next level. And that’s kind of what they’re looking for, I think, right? Is help. Yeah. And stuff. So yeah, we see a lot in nutrition, exercise programs, you know, designing weight training programs for kids.

[40:05] It encompasses a lot. You know, we don’t have a strength and conditioning coach per se there all the time, right? We do have some people come in, but you know, Oregon State — you just ship them off to the strength and conditioning coach, right? Nutritionist. Yeah, nutritionist. It’s awesome. You’re like the MacGyver of medicine. I’ve heard that before, actually. And that goes with all athletic trainers. You improvise, right? Yeah. You don’t have the sophisticated equipment that an NFL team might have. So we ad-lib and we design

[40:37] something and make it work. What can we build with these popsicle sticks? Done that. We call them tongue depressors. But think about that — like, he’s dealing, first of all, with teenagers. Yeah. Hard enough. Gosh. Then you’re dealing with all the different sports. Like you said, if you’re specialized in college and you’re just treating, you know, basketball players or soccer players, generally they’re kind of the same injuries, right, that you’re going to

[41:08] see. You’re seeing the whole spectrum, the whole gamut — baseball injuries, football injuries. I mean, yeah, it’s really one of the hardest jobs. And but at the same time, I’m seeing adolescent injuries too. Whereas I might get a parent in once in a while or a coach saying, you know, “My back really hurts.” Like, hey, you’re 45 years old. I don’t know how to treat this, you know. I can treat

[41:38] ankle injuries and stuff that happen at this age group very well. But sometimes you go, okay, that’s beyond my scope. Yeah. Oh, you got osteoporosis, grandma. Yeah. No, that’s your problem. Well, we’re getting close on time. But I think there are a couple of just really important questions. We might have to just have you back like twice more. Yeah, I think this is fun. But I want to know, like, what’s the most important thing that you think you could say to parents and to coaches as an athletic

[42:10] trainer? Because they’re all listening, right? Yeah. They better be. Yeah. It’s reassurance, right? Mm-hmm. Can he or she play — return to, you know, practice or games? And I got to be able to tell them. Well, and I think what I mean is, because you have some parents that are psychopaths — you know who I’m talking about. I can’t say that. Maybe — okay, I can — some that are psychopaths, right? It’s like they — both ways, like

[42:41] they’re maybe hyperprotective, or maybe they don’t care — like, “Get them in there.” Like, what’s the message that you would send to a parent who maybe is too intense, or maybe they’re too worried about their kid playing? Like, what kind of message would you send them about high school athletes? Well, I think maybe this is the direction you’re thinking — you know, we talked about earlier with, you know, what you see in the NBA right now with all

[43:11] the Achilles injuries and stuff and not just — you know, the the guys have been sticking around too long, but you know the young guys — are we overtraining? You know, okay, so as a — to a parent, you know — have them play football or soccer and basketball, or wrestle, or cross country and track and field. Let them, let their body rest and stuff. I I’m not a believer that they need to take a season off. I I, you know, I played three sports in high school. You know, we didn’t have the intensity

[43:42] in the summer as they do now. So, maybe that part, you know, could be structured a little bit differently, but rest and change of pace is, I think, a good thing for kids physically and mentally. We’ve seen many kids come in — soccer, soccer, soccer, all year round. All year round. Yes. All league, all state soccer, and then their senior year, “I don’t want to play anymore.” They burn themselves out. You know, parents don’t listen to that part. They don’t — you know, they they want to

[44:13] live through their kids sometimes. And so they want that scholarship. They want that scholarship, even though the amount of money spent on club stuff could have been put into a college account. You could have sent them to the Harvard of chiropractic. Exactly. Yeah. But, you know, it’s — you know, risks and stuff, exposures — that’s going to affect, you know, an athlete’s ability to stay healthy more often, right? And the more exposures you have every

[44:43] day to soccer, the more risk of that concussion, that ACL, or whatever. Overuse? Is that what you’re asking? That’s absolutely it. Absolutely it. Then any advice for budding ATCs, or maybe the high school kids — like, “Oh, painter was on, now I want to be an athletic trainer” — like, what advice would you give somebody to get started? Don’t do it. No, I don’t — I I think it’s — I don’t — I would not change my career whatsoever. This has been — this

[45:15] has been a — you know, the kids have been awesome. I love the kids. The coaches — if it was in a different situation where I had bad experiences, I might have got out sooner, but I never had bad experiences. So that part was easy. I kind of jokingly say, you know, you’re not going to do it for the money. Mhm. Yeah. True. And you better understand the hours. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and high school is a little bit different, you know. Now, Oregon State — it is kind of a 9-to-5, except, you know, when they have some games. You know, basketball plays at night, you

[45:46] know, so there are some later nights, but for the most part they’re getting in early. I won’t say 9:00, it’s not fair to them — maybe seven or six AM and go till six, you know. So it’s a long day. High school athletic trainers — we, you know, we kind of get there about noon and are there till 9:00 at night. Five nights a week in the fall, you know, and stuff like that. So it’s more of a swing-shift job. So understand the hours. You’re not going to get rich doing this. You’re not going to do it for the money. You’re doing it

[46:16] because you enjoy what you’re doing. Awesome. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Okay. Time for a game. I think it’s time for a game. Let’s go. All right. So this is — we play a game every single episode. Okay. So this game is called Fix It Like an ATC. I can see you’re already cheating. You like to win. Okay. You’re making me nervous right now. No, no. This — you’re going to be — I’m retired. I I quit thinking. You’re going to be really, really good at this. Okay. It’s one of those games where there’s no wrong answer. So this one’s called Fix It Like an ATC.

[46:46] Okay. The tagline is: when life throws you a curveball, tape it, move on. All right. So we’re going to give you some everyday problems and we just want you to tell us how would an ATC fix that — like, what ATC skills might you use? Okay. So, do you want to go ahead and throw out the first scenario here, Kathy? Yeah. How would you fix a leaky sink? A leaky — yeah. How would an athletic trainer fix one? So give him the line there. Okay. You

[47:16] walk into the kitchen and the sink is leaking all over the floor. How does an athletic trainer handle this situation? So, keeping the athletic trainer hat on. Yes. And without incriminating me — but I probably have a few rolls of athletic tape in the house, you know, I don’t know how they got there, but that would be one — is, uh, that or duct tape, and man, we’re just going around the pipe like crazy. Right. You do a few like — you know, ankle locks,

[47:46] or anything like that. Some stirrups and stuff. Yes. Are we going KT Tape or are we going white athletic? KT is too expensive at the high school level. So, white athletic tape. All right. All right. How about this one? The IRS is knocking. What’s an ATC’s approach to a full-blown tax audit? Wow. What? I I don’t even know how to — I’m trying to think, what did I do wrong that they’re auditing me for — at the high

[48:19] school. I don’t have an answer for that. Yeah, maybe this is a good time to whip out some of your emotional counseling skills or something like that. Okay. Yeah, that’s — boy, a tough one. There might not be an answer for that one. That’s okay. All right. What about the next one, Kathy? Okay. Teenager refuses to do their homework. Oh, that’s an easy one. Non-compliance — sounds familiar. What’s your sideline strategy when your own kid blows off their homework? Oh, they’re — okay. If it matters to you,

[48:49] it matters to me. Say that all the time to the kids, because they’re not coming in for the rehab, not coming in, not coming in, and they come in two weeks later — it always hurts. If it matters to you, it matters to me. And I haven’t seen you in a week. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I wasn’t expecting the good part of the show to be the game. That was really good. The game is — we just really laugh at that. That was a good one. “It matters to you, it matters to me.” Start saying that. Yeah. We’re going to put that on a shirt. Well, you can do it with your clients,

[55:26] clock will start going. It’s time to go back to work.

Jason: That’s outstanding. I think you’ve certainly earned it.

Kathy: Absolutely.

Jason: Yeah. Well, thank you guys.

Kathy: You have my permission to retire.

Brian: Thank you. There’s no doubt I’m going to be on some of those sidelines and basketball courts. Coach a couple coaches. Yeah. You come sit in

Kathy: our, our

Brian: behind the, you know, soccer bench and absolutely you can come sit on the sidelines and

Brian: I know Dan and and Joe will welcome me back on the court. I got to be careful because I don’t want to

Jason: Right.

[55:56] step on toes. So, you know, I’m not going to go to all of them, but I’ll go to a few.

Kathy: This — you get to be a spectator.

Brian: I can’t wait for that. Halftime we’re not doing so well, or we’re killing the other team, I can go home now.

Jason: Yeah.

Brian: Exactly.

Kathy: You know, that part

Brian: I’m kind of looking forward to. But I’m not —

Brian: the fact that I can go to Oregon State football games this year and not be so exhausted for whole weeks of the work of that. And

[56:26] I can’t wait for that.

Kathy: Are you still going to be making Gatorade at home?

Brian: No. That’s a funny story. I — probably in the — 27, and I apologize if I’m rambling too much.

Jason: We’re good.

Brian: 27 years of using Gatorade.

Kathy: Yeah.

Brian: Yeah. Exactly.

Jason: We’ll make —

Brian: I might have had maybe a dozen cups of Gatorade in my whole time there. I just never think about that. Kids —

Kathy: Oh, serious. Really?

Brian: Yeah. Once in a while I’ll just taste it, see if it tastes right, but I don’t

[56:56] drink it.

Brian: Kids will reach their hand in and get ice out of the ice machine. I’ve never done that in 36 years — ever. It’s like I don’t think about that kind of stuff. So no, I won’t miss having Gatorade.

Kathy: Oh my gosh. Well, Brian, this has been excellent. I appreciate it, guys. This was a lot of fun.

Brian: It was fun.

Kathy: I was kind of — oh boy. I didn’t know what to expect.

Jason: Everybody dreads it.

Brian: I don’t say I dread it, but I almost forgot about it, too.

Jason: So thanks for — giving me then — he’s just

[57:26] like everybody else. This is a very forgettable podcast.

Brian: In fairness, I was on vacation. The last three, four weeks have been very hectic for me. Very, very hectic. So,

Jason: I bet.

Kathy: Well, hey, I’d love to have a hectic time in Mexico. So,

Jason: no, but we titled this episode “Athletic Training Legend,”

Kathy: and it’s because that’s what we really feel like you are. You mean a whole lot to a lot of people in this community who have come through

[57:57] Corvallis High School — an absolute professional. And I’ll tell you, one of the moments — the time when I knew that I had made it — and I’ve done some cool stuff in my career, right? Like I’ve been on national boards and I’ve worked with OSU and everything like that. But I’m not even making this up. One of the moments in my career where I really felt like I had made it was when somebody told me, “Parents had to come see you.”

Brian: And I was like —

Kathy: wow.

Brian: Oh my gosh. A parent — as an adult. Solid.

[58:29] That’s funny.

Jason: But, so yeah, I appreciate the trust. When you said that you were retiring, I felt simultaneously sad and just so happy for you. You’ve done very well.

Brian: Again, means a lot from both of you guys. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Kathy: Yeah. Thank you for everything you’ve done for the community, too.

Jason: Yeah.

Kathy: Yeah. Everybody —

Brian: let’s not confuse that legend with longevity either. Okay. That’s —

Jason: Yeah. No, that’s Buffalo. We’ll have him on a different time.

Brian: Well, don’t do that, ‘cause Bob Holt fired me about 20 times.

[59:00] Jason: Okay. I think we need a part two.

Kathy: Yeah, we do — just for that story.

Jason: Well, I don’t know. Like if one of us gets sick or something like that, I think Brian’s our new substitute co-host, right?

Brian: No, I apologize. One of the reasons I got into athletic training is because my — the curriculum said there’s no public speaking.

Kathy: And now that you’re out —

Brian: Yes. No, I’m done. I’m done.

Kathy: Public speaking and no math.

Brian: All right.

Jason: No math. Exactly.

[59:30] Kathy: Well, I think that we should land this plane. So thank you everybody, if you’re still watching, or even if you just started watching, for tuning into this episode of the PTCH Podcast. It’s been our honor to have Brian on. And I want to encourage you to subscribe, like, comment, rate — if it’s five stars.

Jason: Skip it if it’s less than five stars.

Kathy: Send us questions.

Jason: Yes, definitely send us guest ideas, people you want us to talk to.

Kathy: Absolutely. Every Wednesday we’re releasing episodes, so definitely

[60:01] tell a friend. And oh, there’s one more important thing.

Jason: That’s right.

Kathy: There’s no “I” in PTCH.