The Chiropractor Who Challenges Chiropractic: Dr. David Newton

can really serve our patients well? And so that’s kind of how Clinical Concepts was born. And honestly, I feel very fortunate to have had so much success with it in terms of connecting with so many great chiropractors.

[6:42] And I think that my partner in crime in this venture has been Dr. Patrick Cavanagh, who is the other co-founder of Clinical Concepts. And we’ve been very fortunate to to grow a really wonderful community of chiropractors who all share a very similar passion for wanting to better themselves as clinicians, and to really take care of their patients in the best way possible.

[7:12] So I think that’s the overview, the bird’s eye view of what we’re trying to accomplish. And I think maybe one of the things that we can probably dive into later is some of the specifics of what that actually looks like in terms of how we deliver care. Yeah, I’d love to dive into that. I was going to say, can you define evidence-based? Because I feel like that’s a word that gets thrown around a lot and I think it means different things to different people. Yeah, I

[7:42] think that’s a really important thing to address because I think you’re right. It can sometimes be used in a way that’s maybe a little bit weaponized. And so I think it’s important to kind of lay out the framework for what we actually mean by that. So evidence-based practice is actually a framework that was developed by Dr. Gordon Guyatt. He’s an epidemiologist out of McMaster University in Canada. And the the three components of this framework are, number one, the best available research

[8:12] evidence. Number two, clinical expertise. And then number three is patient values and goals. And I think what tends to happen with evidence-based practice is that it gets reduced to just that first component, which is the best available research evidence. And people say, “Well, show me the evidence. Where are the randomized controlled trials? Where is the systematic review? Where is the meta-analysis?” And while those are all very, very important, it’s a very reductionistic approach to evidence-based practice that leaves out

[8:42] the clinical expertise and the patient values and goals. And I also think that there’s this misconception that if something doesn’t have a randomized controlled trial to support it, that it’s therefore not evidence-based. And that’s not accurate. When we talk about evidence, we’re really talking about a hierarchy of evidence. And at the very bottom of that hierarchy, we have things like anecdotal evidence, case reports. And then as we move up the hierarchy, we have things like cohort studies and case control studies. And at the very top, we

[9:13] have the systematic reviews and meta-analyses that are looking at multiple randomized controlled trials. And so I think the reality is, is that for most of the things that we do in clinical practice, we’re not going to have the level of evidence that gets to the very top of that pyramid. And that doesn’t mean that what we’re doing is not evidence-based. It means that we have to be honest and transparent about what the evidence says and what it doesn’t say, and apply our clinical expertise and take into account the values and goals of the patient. So I think

[9:43] that’s a really important nuance to understand about what evidence-based practice actually means. Yeah, that’s great. I love that. And I think one of the things that I always tell my patients is that I’m never going to tell you that there’s no evidence for something. I’m going to tell you what the evidence says and what it doesn’t say. And I think that’s a really important distinction. And it also, I think, speaks to the N equals 1 concept that was mentioned in your intro. Yeah, do you want to talk about that? Because

[10:13] I think that’s a really interesting concept. Yeah, and I think it relates very nicely to what we were just talking about with evidence-based practice. So N equals 1 is a concept in research that refers to a single subject. And when we’re talking about research, N is usually the variable that refers to the number of participants in a study. And so when we talk about N equals 1 care, what we’re really saying is that we’re treating the individual in front of us. And I think the challenge with research is that it tells us

[10:43] what works on average for a group of people. And the reality is that your patient is not the average of a group of people. Your patient is an individual with their own unique history, their own unique goals, their own unique values, their own unique biology, their own unique psychosocial context. And so while the research is incredibly important and gives us a framework for how to approach care, we have to always be remembering that we’re applying that to an individual. And I think that’s what N equals 1 care is really about.

[11:13] It’s about taking that research evidence and then individualizing it to the specific patient that’s sitting in front of you. And I think that’s where the clinical expertise component of evidence-based practice really comes in, because it takes skill and experience to be able to take that research and then translate it to the individual patient. So I think that’s really the crux of what N equals 1 care is. And you know, it’s funny, I think when people hear that they sometimes think, “Oh, so you’re just doing whatever you want and calling it N equals 1.”

[11:43] And that’s not what we mean at all. What we mean is that you’re starting with the evidence, you’re applying your clinical expertise, and then you’re individualizing it to that specific patient. So it’s not an excuse to do whatever you want. It’s actually a very disciplined and thoughtful approach to care. Yeah. And I think you know what’s interesting is that, Kathy, you and I talk about this a lot, right? Like we’re always saying,

[6:41] can actually help the patients that we’re working with at the level that they deserve. So really the platform was born out of frustration and my want or need to connect with other chiropractors who shared that same vision. Well, and I think that what you’re saying is actually really interesting because chiropractic is generally not a very forward-facing or forward-moving profession. We spend a lot of time looking back at our origins and you know, the old

[7:11] school and things like that. And so yeah, there are some old ideas that people just love to hang on to. And what you’re doing is really kind of revolutionary because even some of the things — some of our sacred cows, so to speak — in chiropractic, you have no fear of being like, “That’s not so sacred,” right? And there’s just healthcare, really. There’s just bodies and people, and

[7:41] how you choose to approach it is how you choose to approach it. So it really is something different that you’re doing. What’s one of those sacred cows? I need to know. Oh, the adjustment — the adjustment is definitely like a sacred thing, and the reason to adjust. Yeah. Like, I did a continuing education conference this weekend, and — well, I mean, you know why I’m pausing. Okay, I’m just going to come out and say nobody’s watching this, so I’m not getting into trouble, right? When you go to a chiropractic

[8:12] conference, there are a lot of techniques and they’re named after people. And so when there’s a conference and you see somebody’s coming and they’re sharing about adjusting, and the technique is named after them — red flag, right? Because they’re never going to be wrong. It’s all going to be dogma. And we love that. Chiropractors love that, you know, where it’s not okay to be like, “Look, we thought this, but we see this, and so now let’s do this instead.” And it is like you

[8:45] were saying, it’s one of the things that really holds us back. So what does Clinical Concepts do about that? We have a couple of things that we do underneath the Clinical Concepts brand. One of them is a clinical mentorship for primarily students and then also new graduates. So that’s a 10-week program where our goal is to expose students and new grads to the information that they’re just not getting in school. I think if we’re

[9:15] going to be blunt and honest, the way that schools in the US are structured right now, the education that’s being provided, the mentorship that they’re receiving from clinicians in school in their clinical rotations — there are a lot of barriers to those students getting access or exposure to some of these ideas that really lend themselves towards a more patient-centered, evidence-based approach. So really what we’re trying to do is supplement their education with some of these ideas so that they can begin to think about clinical

[9:46] care through a different lens, even if they’re not able to apply those concepts while they’re in school, which again is another one of their barriers. Because I don’t know how much the audience knows about what chiropractic school looks like, but as you’re going through school you have all these board exams you have to pass, you obviously have to pass the classes that are within school, you have to hit certain requirements as you go through your clinical rotations, and a lot of the education that’s geared towards those aspects of school unfortunately does not really align very well with — at least from my

[10:17] perspective — what evidence-driven care looks like. So we are really trying to expose them to some of these other ideas so that they can gain some confidence in that before they graduate and get into their first job and are overwhelmed by what that job is presenting them. So the mentorship is one aspect, and then the other aspect would be the online community that we run, which is for more seasoned clinicians or people that have gone through the mentorship program, where it’s an extension where people get regular opportunities to learn, whether it’s through guest speakers or we have live virtual calls each week. It’s

[10:49] really a place where people can challenge themselves to learn and grow on a more regular basis, rather than waiting for potentially the continuing education opportunities that you just spoke about, Jason, that may or may not be helpful for them in their professional growth. Right. But you got to get the credits. You got to get those credits. Credits. Yes. Exactly. Get those credits. When you get a student in your clinic, what’s the one idea that you really make sure he or she wants to have before they leave? I would say one of the biggest things

[11:20] that we want people to walk away with at the end of the mentorship program would be that there’s not one way to do things. I think through a lot of the technique systems out there, through the way that we’re taught in school, things become very black and white. Things are very systematic in nature. There’s not a lot of flexibility in the thought process. There’s not always a lot of critical thinking. And to me, when I look at the complexity of humans, the complexity of pain, the complexity of all these factors that go into

[11:50] what we do, I think when you really become strict in the way that you approach things, we’re missing out on so many different things that can probably help our patients. So from a really broad — you know, step back a little bit here — I want people to continue to be open-minded in the way that they approach care and understand that the way that you’re going to do things today hopefully is not the way that you’re going to do things 5 years, 10 years, 15 years down the road. And that you’re always seeking more information and growth throughout the profession. But we very much don’t teach

[12:20] a technique. We very much don’t teach specific systems. I think more so than anything, we teach a thought process that allows people to navigate some of these clinical decisions. Yeah, that’s so cool. And I think I’ve said this to Jason before — I feel like our two professions are really closely aligned. There’s a myth that chiropractors and PTs don’t like each other, but I think it’s mostly because we’re in the same realm. We’re in the same arena. Yeah. And really, we do a lot of the same thing. We just kind of come at it in a

[12:50] different way. And you know, in our profession too, we have that — you know, we have a big controversy over, as far as evidence-based care goes, like is manual therapy evidence-based? Is it a placebo? You should just be doing exercise. Exercise is the only way for people to get better. So, I feel exactly what you’re talking about with your clinical concepts. I think it’s really great what you’re doing for your profession and it’s possible to do — like if it

[13:21] doesn’t matter the technique, right? Because I can do manual therapy and I can do that in a very patient-centered way. I can do manual therapy and it’s a very practitioner-centric way. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Same with exercises. I could give everybody the same cookie-cutter exercises — and it is — this is a really important space because it’s underaddressed by just classical medical interventions. So where you’re typically going to get a

[13:51] medication, or you’re going to get like an 8-and-a-half by 11 sheet of “here’s some standard ex—” did you — you said back pain. Oh, back pain. Here are the six back pain exercises. These are guaranteed to cure you, and if they don’t, then I’m going to refer you to a physical therapist. And so it’s like somewhere down the line everybody ends up at us because nobody’s doing it like us. Let’s go. And so, but I just want to address something that you were talking about in terms of the education, because I don’t know if you

[14:22] know this about me, but part of my background is I used to be on the National Board of Chiropractic — I can’t even say it — the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners. And I’ve worked with them developing tests. I was on that board and everything. And so I get to see the results, right? I get to see what are people good at, what are they not good at. And we would have these discussions about like what really is important for students to know. And so there is a lot of educating to the tests, right? And

[14:53] I don’t think the tests are bad because they’re important from a — from a cultural authority standpoint. Other professions have it and so we need to have it too. We need to be able to demonstrate that people have minimal competency. But the thing that’s really interesting to me — and I don’t know, maybe I’ll get in trouble for saying this, but I’m not on the board anymore. So what are they going to do, fire me? So the thing that’s interesting to me is that the adjusting technique portion of it is the

[15:24] easiest part of the test. Yes. So it is very rare that people do not get — that it’s rare that people do not get one of those answers right. It’s like 90-plus percent. And so it’s almost not even worth testing. And so the techniques don’t matter as much as all the other things that go into you being a practitioner. So the ability to recognize conditions, diagnose, conduct yourself professionally.

[15:56] There’s a practical exam and everything like that. So it’s good because I think there’s a good number of people that — like you talked about your frustration coming out of school — that they wonder, well, what am I supposed to do now? And am I supposed to have these set care plans and everything like that? And so we kind of mentioned the N equals 1 and I’ve watched a lot of your stuff and you say N equals 1 a lot. Like you say it more than anybody that I know.

[16:26] So for the non-math people out there, what do you mean when you’re talking about N equals 1? So the N equals 1 for me simply means that every person that walks in the door for me is a unique individual. So you were talking about back pain, or maybe we’re dealing with shoulder pain or knee pain or whatever it is. A lot of the times it’s easy to clump those types of patients together. Okay, here’s my back pain patients, here’s my knee pain patients, here’s how I’m going to

[16:56] approach that type of patient, rather than having consideration for who is the person — rather than just labeling them through the type of pain or condition that they’re dealing with. Who are they as an individual? Who are they as a person? What types of goals do they have? What is their prior history? What are their prior experiences? I think all of these things that make someone unique and individualized should be considerations that we have when we’re trying to come up with a plan of care for that person.

[17:26] So the N equals 1 for me is simply a reminder that I don’t care if this is the thousandth back pain patient that I’ve worked with — there are still unique aspects about them that I need to have consideration for if I’m going to do my job at the highest level. So yes, I do use that a lot, maybe more so than anybody else, but it’s a way for myself almost to have that reminder to not fall into these traps of simply clumping people into these groups or putting them in these buckets and treating them accordingly.

[17:56] Everybody has something unique about them. And I think that’s something that we should be acknowledging across healthcare, but more specifically for us within our space. It sounds exhausting, though. It really does. And I mean, you probably know what I mean by that because I think we kind of categorize people and we group them like that because it’s efficient. Like there are certain ways of practicing that are going to service most people, but it’s not going to help

[18:26] everybody. And I think we’ve all had experiences where people come in and they’re like, “Yeah, I was failed by this, I was failed by this, I was failed by this,” and then they show up to you, and it would be very easy just to throw them in a bucket and see if — you know, if you hang out in my bucket a little bit longer. But I think that you’re right that even though it’s kind of exhausting to think about, especially if you’re seeing a lot of patients, everybody deserves that. That is healthcare, right? Otherwise you could just Google it. So that’s what

[18:56] I usually do — constantly competing with Dr. Google. I know. Whenever I’m doing new patient intake and I’m putting in all their stuff and everything like that, I’m like, “All right, so just sit there for a second. I’m gonna ask ChatGPT what a good chiropractor would do next.” Where’s the tibia? Yes, I know. Hey, I live in the 21st century. I should get the benefits. Goodness. All right, let’s segue. He’s got a podcast. He’s got a podcast. He’s got a podcast. I thought he was cool.

[19:27] Yeah. Yeah. You got the ChiroShift podcast. Why start the ChiroShift? ChiroShift. ChiroShift. Chiro. ChiroShift. Yeah, the ChiroShift. The ChiroShift podcast. ChiroShift podcast. I’ve listened to every episode. They’re all good. Okay. Yes. Okay. We have at least one follower. That’s great. Yes. Good to know. That’s — and I got Kathy to listen to one. Yeah. There we go. We’re headed in the right direction. I like that.

[19:57] The ChiroShift podcast. Well, let’s take a step back. Let’s look at social media right now and how we can disseminate information. And I think for a while we had maybe slightly a few more seconds to hold people’s attention through social media, but we’ve gotten to this place now. I’m sorry. I wasn’t — What? Yeah. Right. No, are we on a podcast? Wait, what are we — what are we doing with this?

[20:27] So back to our point — attention, very, very short. So I think there was a period where there was a higher capacity to educate people to some degree through social media, or at least provide some level of information. I think we got to this point where it’s really hard to have serious discussions or provide nuance through that avenue, or those avenues. So to me, I think there’s a lot of topics that deserve the time, that deserve the nuance, and long-form content is kind of the only way to go about that. And there were just a lot of

[20:58] conversations that I wanted to have between individuals within the profession and other professions. We’ve had physical therapists on, obviously a lot of chiropractors. We’ve had some people in research. Why? I don’t know. It’s a great question. But yeah, I think to just be able to dive deeper into some of these topics and give them the attention that they deserve — that was ultimately the point of the podcast. And if we had 10 listeners, 50 listeners, if it helped

[21:28] one person, to me it was going to be worth it, because we are navigating this time where I think there are more and more chiropractors who are trying to practice differently, who are trying to move out of the shadows of what we’ve been historically. And I think they’re looking for other people to have these discussions in public arenas, to gain confidence in their approach as well. Right? That’s why I do the social media that I do. That’s why we started the podcast to some degree. It’s to give more

[21:58] confidence to these next generations of chiropractors as well. And from the patient perspective, maybe they do get some exposure to some of these different ideas and now they become curious, because maybe they’ve only heard certain things about chiropractors and that’s turned them off from going down that path. I think we are a profession, unfortunately, that people either love us or they hate us. There’s not a lot of people in the middle. There’s no middle ground. There’s no middle ground. So I want to bring more people into that middle ground so they can at least become curious about some of these things, because I do think as

[22:28] musculoskeletal practitioners — who are both PTs and chiropractors, especially those of you who are going out into more cash-based practices and maybe have a little bit more freedom in the way you’re approaching things — there are just so many things that we can do to help people with musculoskeletal issues that can ultimately have other positive effects in their life and in their health. Where was our question? Getting back to the podcast, right? It is just another opportunity to have some of those discussions and hopefully create more curiosity amongst both people in the profession, but also

[22:59] potentially people that are in the public as well. And so you’ve talked to a bunch of different providers with different practice models. What’s the most unique and intriguing model that you’ve heard about? I think the most unique for me would have to be seeing chiropractors go virtual. And I know — I know practitioners that have gone completely virtual — which, if you just have a general sense of what chiropractic is, blasphemy.

[23:30] Blasphemy. We just — we ping energy waves through the camera. Yeah. Okay. So, I got to tell you — I used to be on the state licensing board and we did have a case where somebody made a complaint because a chiropractor was adjusting people over the phone. Okay. And it was very much “hold your phone close to your spine” and — Yeah. No. You’ve got to be kidding me. So, I just want

[24:02] to let people know — whether you’re a chiropractor or you’re curious about chiropractors — that is grounds for discipline. That is not a thing. Don’t do that. No, please don’t do that. So, could you tell us how does that work remotely? Yeah, sure. I think for the chiropractors that are successfully working completely remotely, it’s typically because they’ve niched down to a specific population that is probably going to primarily benefit from education, support, and guidance in some of their day-to-day

[24:34] behaviors or lifestyle modifications, things of that nature. But even one of your co-hosts does that, right? Yes. Taylor Goldberg — she works primarily with the hypermobile population. But the one thing I will say is the practitioners that I know that are practicing completely virtually, it’s not that they’re against their patients seeing a provider in person either. So a lot of the time, if they feel collectively like that’s going to be something that’s going to benefit them, typically there’s some level of referral source, or they’re seeking out

[25:04] someone in the area that they can really feel comfortable referring to, to provide those services. So even though that practitioner might be working 100% virtually, that doesn’t mean that it’s excluding in-person care — that would just be handled by someone else. But the people that are doing it successfully, again, it’s because they’ve niched down. And I think when we look at some of the things that become most beneficial in the way that we are approaching care for the cases we’re working with, a lot of that can come from communication and just general guidance about the things that we can be doing — we as the patient —

[25:36] to be helping ourselves on a daily basis. So I think that’s one of the best examples of how we are seeing success in patients minus the manual therapy, which is of course what we’re most well known for. Mhm. Well, that’s kind of an interesting thing because — like, sometimes — first of all, I’ve — oh jeez, let me not knock over the microphone. I’ve really enjoyed the podcast because I think it’s introduced a little bit of humility into my life. Like, I’ve been doing this for almost two decades, and I feel like I know what I’m doing, right?

[26:06] And a lot of the guests that you have on, they’ve been — they’re newer from my perspective, but the things are so interesting, and it challenges me and how I practice and my practice model, and so that’s been really good. So I’ve gone into days of work where I’m thinking about things from the PTCH podcast and I feel like it’s making me a better practitioner. So thank you for that. And one of the things that this makes me think of is, you know, potentially maybe I have

[26:36] somebody in my practice who — sorry, let me back up a little bit. One of the things that gets talked about frequently is spending more time with patients, which is an important thing. It’s the biggest complaint that patients have about healthcare is, “I can’t get time with my doctor.” These days, you can’t even get in with a doctor. And so when I think about that again, it makes me tired because I’m seeing probably more patients than I want to see right now, and I can’t think of a way that I could spend more time with them and still service the community. But

[27:08] like there might be a place in a practice where it’s like, okay, you have the chiropractor in your practice that is delivering the manual therapies — they’re doing the adjustments — but maybe have two or three other chiropractors who are working remotely and they’re doing more of a coaching capacity, something like that. So I think my knee-jerk reaction when I heard about this stuff was like, well, that’s not going to work in my practice, but it’s giving me thoughts — like I think you might be changing the world, David. And yeah, go ahead, Stephen. Sorry. No, no,

[27:39] you’re good. I was just going to say don’t give me credit for that. There are definitely people behind me and behind practitioners like Taylor who are really, I think, introducing some of these ideas into what’s possible from a practice perspective. And of course going through COVID, I think, changed how a lot of us look at what healthcare can be and what is possible without seeing people in person. But I really think that there are ways to implement these things into practice so that, to your point,

[28:10] Jason: there, like you don’t feel like you’re just running yourself into the ground because you want to spend more time with your patients. I think, you know, even if you were to go completely virtual, introducing some of these hybrid aspects is really what’s allowed me to buy back some of my time, because I was in a position where I was working with way too many people and, as much as the work was fulfilling, I was dead. Like at the end of the week, I was just trying to survive the weekend to have enough energy to go back on Monday morning. So for me, having opportunities to see people in person sometimes but then also have

[28:42] communication and support and the opportunity to continue to work with them outside of the office with some type of virtual capacity — like that’s what’s really, I think, brought more balance to my practice and the way that I approach things, so that personally and selfishly for myself I feel better in my day-to-day life. Because like, you know, when you get passionate about this work you do want to help as many people as you can, but I was at that place seven, eight years into practice where it just wasn’t sustainable. Like I felt great about the work I was doing

[29:12] but for myself it just wasn’t sustainable. And this is my ten-year anniversary for graduating PT school. Oh my gosh. Congratulations! Happy — do you want me to sing? Any anniversary? It’s our anniversary. No. Do you know what today is? Well, not actually today. Our anniversary. Can I make my point? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. My point is the more I practice, the more what I

[29:42] realize is the most important thing for treating patients is the education I give them. It’s less about the manual therapy, the exercises — those are the modalities. But, you know, debunking Dr. Google — one of the biggest, best things I could do. He’s pretty easy. Yeah. But that face-to-face — people, like you said, can’t get in to see their medical doctors. And so they want to talk to someone who is an expert on the body. Yeah. And they just need to be validated. And so that patient education

[30:13] part of my job I’m finding now is one of the more important things that we can provide. I think you’re absolutely right, and we need more ways to get that information to people because I’m going to declare we have a healthcare crisis, and we don’t have enough providers and we have more people than ever — period. And then we also have more people than ever who need healthcare. Like I had a little health scare back in October and as part

[30:44] of the follow-up I was supposed to get in to see my general practitioner. So they made me the first available appointment in March. Wow. I was like — I could have been dead. And maybe that’s the goal: then we don’t have to worry about him. But I’m sure that’s not the goal. But I don’t like the fact that people have to wait a month or two months to get in to see me. And the thing is, there’s just not enough providers in the pipeline. When I was in chiropractic school, they warned us,

[31:14] you know, there’s this wave of people coming and we’re not going to have enough providers. I’m like, whatever — I know people who are slow. But no, like it is here. And what you were talking about, David, with feeling like you’re just trying to tread water, like keep ahead of it — I think that’s a really real concern, and it’s a problem if the people that we have get burned out because there’s not enough in the pipeline to replace them. That would be us. That’s

[31:45] us. Well, I think that’s one of the nice things about people who collaborate and don’t feel like they need to be in competition. Like more than ever in healthcare, we need to be collaborating because we can’t do it all, and so there’s zero reason for any of us to compete. Yeah, Jason and I share a lot of patients, and sometimes if I’m struggling with something, I will send someone his way and Jason can make a breakthrough with this patient. Usually it’s by singing. Do you

[32:16] know what today is? Yeah, that usually just puts them out of their misery, right? Actually, I had a patient come in yesterday and she said, “Oh, I saw my chiropractor for the first time today. I think I know who this is.” And I was like, “Oh, who are you seeing?” She’s like, “Oh, Dr. Young.” I’m like, “Oh, great.” She said, “Yeah, he told me you lost your license, so I shouldn’t cancel my appointment with you.” Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh. All right. You got another

[32:48] question for David? Ah, shoot. I’ve got so many, but like in the context of this podcast, I think we might run long if I ask all the questions. We might have to do like a part two of this sometime. So yeah, do something interesting so that we can have you back on. No, I’ll work on it. Create some type of controversy, you know. Yes. Yes. There we go. Let’s get in. So maybe if we — maybe if he asks him

[33:19] Oh, yes. Let’s ask him this one from segment C. Let’s get controversial, shall we? Let’s do it. Okay. So, we talked about the past. So, should chiropractors just dump the old subluxation sales pitch? The sales pitch. Yes. Okay. Yeah. This is a — That’s it. Next topic. Yes. Move on. Yes. Yep. Okay. That was easy. I think that’s — I think that’s a good answer. Yeah. No, I

[33:50] It’s a theory that has been around for — God, what are we — 130 years old this year? I don’t know when our official birthday is. We’ll just say that. 130 years. 1895. Wow. Happy birthday, guys. Thank you. And happy anniversary. Looking good. Yeah, we’re doing okay, right? To my knowledge, I don’t think we’ve had any substantial research that has really taken this theory to a place that I feel like we should be using these narratives

[34:20] with every single person that walks in the door. I think it does more harm than it does good. You know how long it took to debunk the original theory? It took less than 20 years. Oh yeah. Honestly, like you look at what are we doing? You look at the history of chiropractic. The original theory that DD Palmer had — within 15 to 20 years you had like eight or nine different splinter groups in chiropractic who thought that it

[34:50] worked a different way because the empirical evidence wasn’t there. Yeah. Right. So if you look at germ theory — in order to prove that germ theory was valid, they said okay, what we need to see is every single time we see this condition we need to see this bacteria, and every single time we see this bacteria we need to see this condition 100% of the time, and if not, then no germ theory. You couldn’t do that with chiropractic and the subluxation model because 100% of the time it wasn’t adding up. So

[35:20] it didn’t even take — I mean, we didn’t even make it to the Great Depression before this model was sufficiently debunked. But for some reason, we’re gripping on to it like it’s the only thing that we have, and it’s definitely not. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s a huge issue because — I mean, if you just take a second to research something like low back pain, something that we deal with all the time,

[35:50] and you were to spend even 15 to 30 minutes perusing through a handful of articles, I think we could very easily come to the conclusion that care based on the bodies of research we have available to us today should consist of more than manual therapy. And it probably definitely doesn’t include subluxation theory in the way that we’re going to explain it from a scientific perspective, right? There’s just so much more that’s going on. So to me, it’s just weird that we exist into modern day and we hold on to these

[36:20] things. I didn’t know this 20-year thing — that it had already been debunked after 20 years — but it was pretty quick. How are we 110 years after the fact of that and still holding on to it right now? I have my ideas of why that might be. Oh, I too. Yes. I don’t know if you want to go there, but I do think as healthcare practitioners, we have a responsibility to continue to update our knowledge with science, yes, to some

[36:50] capacity, right? And have the ability to distinguish between what science carries more value than others. I’m not going to sit here and say that that is the only thing that matters. We know that there are other things that contribute to what an evidence-based practice is. But from my perspective, research science should be one of the things that is guiding us in our decision-making process. And if we’re not updating what we know from that on a regular basis, to me we’re doing a disservice to our patients, because I think holding this level of education,

[37:22] if we want to be respected, that should require us to kind of be diving into that world — being the research world — on a somewhat regular basis. To me, that’s just what gets us respect over a period of time: that we’re not sitting in this corner just blabbering on about something that’s been disproven for over a hundred years. We’re actually stepping into what modern healthcare is, for better or for worse, right? But what are the good parts of that? And to me, there is a lot of research to support what we’re doing now. And there are a lot of things that

[37:52] should have updated the way that we think about care so that we can best handle the patients that we’re working with. And I think that’s something we should be striving to do. Yeah. And I think the answer is fear, right? That’s why we’ve held on to it — because there’s a fear that if I have been telling people this for so long… I’m a first-generation chiropractor, but there are lots of second-, third-, even fourth-generation chiropractors, and if I’m not doing it the way that this person did it —

[38:23] or did wrong. Yeah. Right. — then I’m disrespecting them and I’m dishonoring them. And we fear what might happen if we discover that there is no subluxation. And I like to argue with people on social media. I do it a lot. I do it a lot. I don’t even know if I’m good at it. I just like to. But people’s favorite things to harp on are the origins of chiropractic. Like, oh, DD Palmer blah blah blah, and you guys think that you’re fixing subluxations — and then when I’m like, no, that’s not what we

[38:53] think. That’s what they thought 100 years ago, but that’s not what most chiropractors think. Like, people just don’t even know what to do with that. Like they just, “Well, yes, you do think that.” “Well, okay. No, I don’t. And I don’t know why or how you’re an authority on what I think.” But I think that people fear that if this turns out not to be what I thought it was, then I’m no longer relevant. I’m not actually helping the people that I helped yesterday. But that’s ridiculous, because I remember learning this in chiropractic school. You

[39:24] had Lester Partner. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. So when you go to University of Western States, which is widely acknowledged as a — Harvard of chiropractic. Yeah, they all claim that they are. But Lester Partner — fantastic teacher, just amazing guy. He does this class, or did this class at least when I was there, and he talks about basically how there are these problems with the subluxation theory. And subluxation theory — just so people who are listening

[39:54] are like, what is this — that is like the basic thing that most chiropractors historically have been saying: we’re fixing these misalignments in your spine, and if they get fixed then all your nerves are going to be okay and your organs are going to work forever and you’re never going to die or get cavities or anything like that. So it was an oversimplification. And so you sit in his class and he takes this thing apart and then everybody’s just looking at each other all uncomfortable like, “Bro, I already paid

[40:24] tuition. What’s happening? Did you pay tuition? Did they make you pay for it?” Yeah, exactly. And then somebody says, “Okay, so like, what are we?” And he’s like, “I’m glad that you asked.” And then he takes you down another path and then he rips that thing up and it’s like, what is going on here? It’s very uncomfortable. Yeah. But it’s one of the most educational things that you experience, because that’s one of the things I appreciate about the institution that we went to — even though chiropractic education

[40:54] is still not perfect, it’s more progressive in terms of allowing you to learn things that are science-based so that we can participate in the rest of the healthcare world. And there’s a segment of chiropractic that really wants to segment ourselves and make it us against them. But there’s no way that survives. It does not. It cannot survive. Yeah, because you can’t outlast evidence. You can’t. And so I don’t know where I was going with that, but I said a lot of words

[41:24] just now, y’all. I said them. Rewind the podcast. I said what I said. I said what I said. I stand by it. Yeah. What are we doing now? I think it’s time for Mad Libs. Oh, yes. Would you like to introduce the game? Yes, I would. Have you ever done a Mad Lib before, David? Yeah, it’s been a while though. Okay. So in the rich tradition of our show — yeah, we’re under 10 episodes — we like to do a

[41:54] game to end every episode. And so we’ve created a special game for you. I just want to do a Mad Lib with you. Okay. So here’s how it works. I’ve written a little intro for this. Oh, we got to write down the things. Can you — oh, no. Are you in the document? Okay, cool. Where do you want me to write it? Here. Yeah, that would be good. Okay, so just as he says them. So in this game, we’ll be doing a Mad Lib with David Newton. That’s you. He will provide words and we’ll plug them into the story to

[42:25] make it hilarious. And if it’s not hilarious, it’s David’s fault, not ours. We’re funny all the time. And David is the new guy here. So if listeners laugh, David, you win. That’s all you got to do. All right. Here we go. You’re familiar with it. I’m going to ask you for a word type. Just spit out the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. All right. So first one, we need an adjective. Crooked.

[42:55] Crooked. All right. That’s a good one. Word number two. We’re going to need another adjective. Curvy. Curvy. All right. I see a theme. There is a theme. Okay. Word number three. Give me a non-healthcare occupation. Plumber. Plumber. Very good. I was hoping you’d say plumber. All right. Number four. Give us a noun —

[43:25] that is a person, place, or thing. I tried running through this with my wife. She’s like, I don’t want to do this ‘cause I don’t know any of those things. Don’t call out Mandy like that. Yeah. And she knows it all. She just doesn’t have patience with me. That’s a thing. Understood. Yeah, that’s a person, place, or thing. Let’s go. Basketball. Go Denver Nuggets. Basketball. Okay. How about an emotion? Joy. Joy. Good one. Give me a body

[43:56] part, but plural. Let’s go. Pinky fingers. Pinky fingers. Very good. Okay. How about a verb? Run. Good. Another verb. Skate. All right. A plural noun.

[44:26] Books. Books. All right. How about something you say when you leave? Adios. Adios. Give me a number. 13. A celebrity. Arnold Schwarzenegger. A verb. Eat. A noun. Tree. Okay, we got three more. A taunting

[44:56] exclamation. A taunting exclamation. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. That’s good. An adjective. Purple. And a verb ending in -ing. Sleeping. Sleeping. Okay, very good. All right, we got them all entered. Do you want to read it or should I? You read it. All right, here we go. Here’s your Mad Lib. All right. In

[45:26] direct response to the recent appearance of Dr. David Newton on the Crooked Podcast — The PTCH Podcast — curvy chiropractor and amateur plumber Jason Young… wow, he nailed it. Jason Young is pleased to announce the creation of his new academy in direct competition with Clinical Concepts. Dr. Young’s philosophy is that all healthcare problems occur when a basketball becomes joy. Naturally, this causes all of your pinky fingers to run. When this happens, you can skate your books

[45:57] adios. Most patients are better after just 13 visits. Don’t believe me? Just listen to this testimonial. My name is Arnold Schwarzenegger, and since I started working with Dr. Young, I can finally eat my tree. Gotcha, David Newton. Are you ready to help your patients feel purple all while sleeping your bank account? Sign up for Dr. Young’s Academy today. All right. I think he won the game, because you’re

[46:28] Jason: Dying. You’re dying, right? So, yeah. Where do I sign up? I’m going to be sad if people don’t laugh. I’m going to be really sad if they don’t. So, listen, David. David, I’m going to give you free admission to my academy. You’re going to get super rich. Super rich. Which is why we became chiropractors, right? That’s the only reason, really. Truly. Yeah. It’s mostly financial incentives. So, good stuff. You want to hit that? You want to hit that question there? Yeah. All right. If you could put a billboard

[46:58] anywhere in the world about chiropractic, what would it say? Oh, this is such a good one. I feel like I’ve gone back and forth. It’s like, do you want to be funny? Do you want to be serious? Do you want to be informative? And I think when I think about this question — and I probably shouldn’t have given this much thought, like this is a simple ending to the conversation, right? I think I wanted something that just again creates curiosity for people, especially the people that don’t really know what chiropractic is. So, what I came up with

[47:28] for this is: we treat more than spines. We treat people. And I think that in itself, it’s vague enough that it’s going to get people interested and maybe wanting to ask questions. And then here’s the QR code. Scan it. Sign up for my detox and — buy my supplements. Buy them. Yeah. David, that gave me like goosebumps. Yeah, that was really good. Yeah, I don’t even remember what you said. No, no, I do. It was: we treat more than spines. We treat

[47:59] Kathy: physical therapy. So — no, we treat people. Hey, physical therapists are people, too. That’s very true. All right, so just to wrap it up, we want everybody out there first of all to subscribe to the Chiro Shift Podcast — high quality podcast, especially if you’re in the chiropractic, PT, healthcare space. You will learn a lot. There will be things there that will challenge you. Really great information. I can’t say enough about it. You guys

[48:29] are on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, all that. Okay. So, Dave and his team are doing really great work there. And you should also follow Clinical Concepts. I actually right before we started, there was a chiropractor I came across on Instagram. He makes really great content and I think he’s over in the UK, and he made this reel where he was talking about kind of a conundrum that he’s in where he’s like,

[48:59] “If I do a good job, then people shouldn’t be coming back.” And he’s like, “This isn’t going to make money.” And so I was like, “You need to talk to David.” And so David is helping chiropractors and other practitioners who want to do a good job. They want to practice the healthcare they thought they were going to be practicing. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, definitely worth following. So, thank you so much, David. Yeah, David. Thank you so much for coming in.

David: No, thank you guys for having me on. It was a blast and I’d be happy to do it

[49:29] again if you ever want to. All right. If we make it to episode seven. Yes. Well, I think — I was talking about the statistics earlier — I think that if we get to like 10 episodes, or no, it’s over 12 episodes, we’re like in the top half a percent of podcasts in the world. Yeah. Exactly. We’re there. Most of them die in their infancy. So, David, if people want to get in touch with you or they want to follow you on socials, can you drop your contacts? Like, what

[50:00] should they be doing? David: Yeah. Instagram would be the best place to get a hold of me. It’s dr.newton, and then our Clinical Concepts page is clinical_concepts. And you can always DM me there. I’m more than happy to talk to anybody. I like when people have questions about what it is that we’re doing. So I always make time to respond to anyone who wants to just even sit down and have a conversation. But that would by far be the easiest way to get a hold of me. Jason: Perfect. And I’ll put

[50:31] that in the show notes and everything so people can click in the description. Is your dog okay? David: Yeah. Yeah, it’s probably the mailman. Jason: The mailman’s okay. We were concerned. The mailman’s okay. Cool. So, Kathy, takeaways from this episode. Do you want to be a chiropractor now? Kathy: Okay. Yeah, that was my first thought. I was like, I want to go to that Harvard of the West. Jason: Yes. Harvard of the West. No, I love the way that David’s

[51:03] approaching patient-centered care. Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s important. It’s important for all of us on both sides of the equation. So, thanks again. Appreciate you, David. We’re going to sign off now. Be sure to subscribe to the PTCH Podcast. We’re also on Spotify, YouTube, and what’s that other one? Apple Podcasts. And let us know what are the topics that are important to you that we talk about. Leave comments, leave reviews, but only if they’re five-star reviews. Otherwise, forget you. We don’t

[51:35] want you. We’ll get those deleted. Yeah. We will just delete those. We paid extra for that. But no, it’s a pleasure working with you again, and thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Scott. Thanks, Scott. Yes. So hopefully we don’t like go watch the podcast later and we find out that nobody can see David. No, Scott’s all over that. So Clinical Concepts, they do good stuff. All right. Thanks, David. Oh, wait, wait, wait. There’s one more thing. Oh, yes. A very important thing. Very important. You know what it is? Yeah. Yeah. There’s no

[52:06] high in PTCH. All right.