Sitting in Your Chair is the Problem and Movement is the Answer

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Jason: I have a theory.

Kathy: Oh boy, I’m already nervous.

Jason: Okay, so the human body is the most advanced movement machine on Earth. It can run, climb, jump, throw, squat, carry —

Kathy: — and yet somehow most people use it

[1:01] primarily to sit.

Jason: Exactly. So humans used to chase antelope across the savannah.

Kathy: Now we mainly chase Wi-Fi signals.

Jason: All right. So think about it. We sit in a car. We sit at work. We sit while we’re watching TV. You’re probably sitting while you’re listening to the PTCH Podcast.

Kathy: We even sit while ordering food, so we don’t have to stand up to get it.

Jason: Our ancestors walked 10 miles probably to get dinner. Now dinner walks to us after somebody drives it to our door.

Kathy: Right. So bodies are amazing, but we

[1:31] spend too much time parked instead of playing.

Jason: Today we’re talking to someone whose entire job is helping people move and have fun doing it.

Kathy: Yeah. So let’s get moving. This is the PTCH.

What happens when a chiropractor and a physical therapist get together to make a health and wellness podcast?

Jason: But chiropractors and physical therapists don’t like each other.

Kathy: Oh, think again. I’m Dr. Kathy Lynch, physical therapist who likes to help people move and get stronger.

Jason: I’m Dr. Jason Young, an evidence-based chiropractor who uses humor just

[2:02] as much as adjustments to help people get better.

Kathy: Welcome to the PTCH Podcast.

Jason: Remember, there’s no I in PTCH. Okay, we’re doing the PTCH Podcast dance. Okay. Now I’m legit dizzy. All right. Welcome back to the PTCH Podcast, everybody. I am Dr. Jason Young.

Kathy: And I’m Dr. Kathy Lynch.

Jason: Okay. And we have a guest here with us today. Somebody that I’ve been very excited to get because she can — she can do it all. This is Amy Clem.

[2:32] Welcome, Amy.

Amy: Oh, the crowd goes wild.

Jason: So Amy is a bit of a Renaissance woman. Is that a good way to describe her?

Amy: Really good way to start.

Kathy: Yeah. So maybe a little bit of a game. We’ll go back and forth talking about who Amy is and what she does. So I’ll start. She is a licensed massage therapist.

Jason: She is a strength coach and fitness instructor.

Kathy: She is a dancer.

Jason: Stole that one.

Kathy: Aerial artist.

Jason: Okay. She makes jewelry.

[3:03] Kathy: Yes, she does. She loves to surf.

Jason: Hula hoop. Yes. Okay. Kettlebell swinger.

Kathy: Jump rope. Did you get jump rope?

Jason: No.

Kathy: Oh yes. She jumps rope.

Jason: Yes.

Kathy: Okay.

Jason: I think that’s it for now.

Kathy: I imagine you probably roller skate too?

Amy: I do!

Jason: Yes. So yeah, I think when we talked about having Amy on, the question was like, “What do we

[3:33] talk to you about? Which thing?”

Amy: Yeah.

Jason: So, welcome.

Amy: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Jason: Yeah. It’s really exciting. I want to start with how you got her on the podcast because she was resistant.

Kathy: Oh yeah.

Jason: Tell the story.

Kathy: Which story are you talking about? Like how did you actually convince her?

Amy: Oh gosh. Well, I think illegally you have to tell the first part of the story, right?

Jason: I violate my own HIPAA. I got a

[4:04] fantastic adjustment from Jason and he was like, “Oh, we should really have you on the podcast” — immediately after the adjustment — because I really love to talk and talk about myself. I was thinking on the way over here, like I would feel so much more comfortable if I could just modern dance my answers to you because articulating with words is challenging. So if you want to give me questions via dance,

Amy: that’s how I’ll respond.

Jason: Yeah. See?

Kathy: Yeah. For the people that just listen —

[4:34] and the other thing that we should add is that Amy is a PTCH Podcast super fan.

Amy: True.

Jason: Right. Like sometimes when we’re talking you’ll bring something up and I’m like, “What are you talking about?” You’re like, “That’s from the show.” I’m like, “What show?”

Kathy: Oh, did I say that?

Jason: Oh, your show. Oh, gotcha. Oh, real quick though — speaking of the show, we’ve hit some milestones, Kathy.

Kathy: Yeah. So just a few short weeks ago we were talking about, oh, we’re so excited to get our listener — not

[5:05] listener, but subscriber — on YouTube. We were at like 2,600 now. Over.

Jason: Yes. So yeah, I said it before, this is becoming — fastly — quickly —

Kathy: Rapidly becoming the most important podcast on earth.

Jason: 100%. It is growing virally.

Kathy: Yes. Exactly. Bigly —

Jason: Bigly. Yes. With great bigness.

Kathy: Yeah, we actually held out on having Amy on because we wanted to make sure we had enough critical mass

Jason: for the dance episode.

[5:35] Kathy: For the dance episode. Yes.

Jason: It’s going to be very quiet.

Kathy: Now, if you pay attention, this episode will culminate with a dance-off between Kathy and Amy.

Jason: No. What we should do — I’ll do the dance-off, but we’ve got to get Austin back on because he’s only got one leg.

Kathy: Yeah. I thought you were going to say he only has one move.

Jason: Yeah. And he also only has one move. Yeah. Trust me. Trust me. You know. So, for people who are listening, I’m actually Black.

[6:06] Jason: Yeah. And yeah, I am. I am. Yeah. It’ll be relevant in a second. So, there was a point when I was probably about 13, no, 12 years old maybe. My sisters came to me and they’re like, “Jason, listen, you are Black. You need to be able to dance.” And I’m like, I can dance. And they’re like, okay. And I could not dance. And so my sisters — like, I went to an intense sister dance. Kathy: But did they really help you out? Jason: Oh, yeah. I was a great dancer. Yeah. I was not a popular kid in middle school outside of the sit-and-reach stuff.

[6:37] Kathy: I mean, I don’t even believe that. Jason: Well, so the sit-and-reach thing actually probably made me more enemies than friends. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: You were on a pedestal. They didn’t know how to approach you. Kathy: Very unapproachable. Jason: The jealousy. Kathy: Yes. The paparazzi. Jason: Yeah. So, then my — my jam was that my sisters got me dancing and so then we go to school dances and I could dance, right? And girls liked that. It was the only thing that they liked about me, but that was it. And guys did not like that. And so,

[7:07] yeah, that was — that was kind of — that was my thing then. Kathy: Did you have a signature move? Jason: I had a few signature moves, I guess. Yeah. But we used to stay up and watch like BET and — yeah, all those things. I’d be watching In Living Color. Kathy: In Living Color! I grew up on that hardcore. I wanted to be a Fly Girl so bad. Jason: I had it recorded on VHS. I’d go back and watch it. Yeah. Kathy: Yeah. Rosie Perez, J.Lo. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You got real Fly Girl energy. You really did. Jason: Oh, thank you.

[7:37] Thank you. Say more. Jason: Yes. So, that kind of segues into what we want to talk about. And I think that when we were discussing like, what do we talk about, the answer was always kind of like, I don’t know. But you are all about movement, right? So tell us — tell us your — tell us your secret. What’s your philosophy on movement? Why do you do what you do? Oh, yeah. No pressure. Yeah. I mean, I don’t think I could not do what I do.

[8:10] I have had periods of my life where I haven’t been moving as much and it’s really difficult to be in my body and in my own head. You know, it’s — I don’t think I realized growing up. So I’ve been dancing since I was three and it was a huge part of my life. Six days a week at the studio, on the dance team in high school. It was just a daily part and I didn’t realize how much that affected — I think — how my nervous system grew. Mm-hmm. So having that physical outlet is just

[8:41] vital for me and I just love it. It makes me so happy. You can also see it in my astrology chart really strongly. So yeah, that’s the other thing. I don’t know if you guys know about me. Jason: Go crazy — you’re talking very scientific, like both ends of the spectrum at the same time. So all right. Yeah. So I then went to college and got my degree in dance. I have a BFA in dance performance and then moved out to Seattle after that to start performing and that’s how I found my way into doing

[9:12] body work, because — spoiler alert — modern dance doesn’t quite pay the bills. Jason: What? Kathy: Yeah. Jason: So funny. You said — I got a BFA in modern dance — as a father, the first thought that went through my mind was, how is she paying bills? But honestly, it’s the best thing I’ve ever done. I actually use my degree on a daily basis. It informs everything that I do, any kind of movement that I’m teaching, in my body work practice.

[9:44] It just — I don’t know, it’s like the same part of my brain. So when I was in Seattle, I was looking around at other folks I was performing with, because I was currently bartending and waiting tables and that was burning the candle at both ends. And one of my fellow performers was an LMT. One person taught Pilates, one person was a Feldenkrais practitioner. You know, I was like, “Oh, that makes sense.” So I enrolled in massage school and I feel like that’s kind of my gateway into doing this and have gone on to just keep studying many, many, many

[10:16] other modalities. But yeah. Jason: Sweet. Yeah. So you went from movement being important for yourself to finding a way to translate that to helping other people to move. Is that as satisfying — like, is that satisfying, helping other people to kind of introduce movement into their life? Yeah, that’s a good question. Jason: I’m a professional podcast host. So that’s — that’s where the question came

[10:46] from. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. And the part that I love about it the most, especially when I’m getting to work with one of my body work clients in like an exercise or strength or movement type way — we can see what’s going on with them currently and what they want to be able to do. And then we can do manual work together, but also really dial in little things that are going to make a difference in their lives to build the prerequisites to then train to do whatever they want to do.

[11:16] And I like to — like, I had a client with neck stuff and we ended up figuring out putting a mirror on her desk so she didn’t have to have that startle reflex every time. Or, you know, ergonomics are important but not everybody can get the sit-stand thing. So really bootlegging it — I feel like that reflects my poor dancer roots. And so getting books in and just making little tiny adjustments with what you have available. That sort of creative problem solving is I think really interesting.

[11:47] Jason: So how long have you been a massage therapist? Since I went to school in 2001, so 2002 I was licensed — for a long time. Jason: How do you feel like your practice has changed, like evolved, grown? Well, I mean, I keep studying, so everything just keeps adding in. I did a separate craniosacral certification, an Ayurvedic practitioner. I then started teaching yoga. So I feel like my toolbox has gotten bigger and I can — I haven’t been the kind

[12:18] of therapist that’ll make you choose what modality you want to receive ahead of time. We sort of just talk about what’s going on right now.

Jason: So, you might have a client who’s like, “I’ve got a little tightness here,” and you’re like, “Do you want to roller skate?”

Kathy: “Would you like to jump rope?” Right.

But we can weave all different things together. So I feel like I just have more to offer and I can meet somebody where they are and what their interests are, you know, that kind of way. So, yeah.

Jason: Well, and I think we were talking before

[12:49] we started and kind of going through all the stuff that you do, and like I pointed out — I was like, “Wow, all the stuff that you do is like stuff that I liked to do when I was a kid.” Like hula hoop, roller skate, jump rope. Yeah. So, like talk about that aspect of it. Like why is so much of your stuff so — what — immature? Like are you just playing all day, or like what’s going on with that?

I mean that’s what keeps you at it, right? Like it’s fun. Usually there’s music involved

[13:19] which really gets me going. Who are you listening to these days?

Oh, I listen to anybody and everybody, but like just my straight-up Lizzo radio station on Spotify is the perfect workout mix.

But yeah, if it’s not fun, you’re not going to keep at it. And I feel like especially right now in my life, surfing is sort of what I’m orienting my life around because I’m not performing professionally anymore. So that’s kind of become the new carrot that I can dangle in front of me.

[13:50] And my husband surfs as well, so we do that together. But we will orient travel around that. And so that’s a great thing to have as a long-term goal that I can then orient my fitness and training around so that I’m better at this thing that I love to do. When you’re better at it, it’s more fun. And you’re out in the ocean — like it’s great. But I think having that — whatever your carrot is, whether that’s playing with your kiddos on the floor and you can pop

[14:21] right up, whether that’s running — well, not for you — a marathon, but some people —

Jason: Ouch. No, but accurate. Totally accurate.

Don’t do it. Don’t do it.

You know that if you’ve watched the show, you know that I would run a marathon for one reason, one reason only, and that is out of spite.

Spite running. That’s always a good —

An animal chasing me — it would be like, okay, I’ve lived a good life. But if you tell me I can’t do it —

Okay, nobody get in the comments and say I can’t do it, because I’m —

[14:51] Listen, you cannot give me a million dollars.

Kathy: Yeah, I — wait a minute. Sit right there.

Oh goodness.

Jason: So, can we talk about Ayurveda? A therapist — or a practitioner. Sorry, practitioner. How’d you get into that? I want to hear more about —

So Ayurveda — a loose translation would be “the science of life,” and it is a sister science to yoga. So I was practicing

[15:21] yoga, and then it’s sort of like the medical side of things — a natural way of healing yourself. And it’s very — you will work with healthcare practitioners, but one thing that’s really beautiful about it is you can make it really simple and it’s really self-reflective. So you have this point of dynamic balance that — from the time that you’re born — it’s your ratio of the five elements, and

[15:52] that’s where your sweet spot is. So —

Jason: What are these five elements?

Earth, water, air, fire, and ether.

Jason: Ah, okay. All right.

So that ratio is going to be constant for you through your whole life for the most part, but different things can influence it. And then you can tune in to yourself, respond, and figure out what do I need right now to bring me back to that place of balance. And I love it because especially on like the food and nutrition side of things, nothing is ever totally off limits, but there are better

[16:23] times to eat certain things than others, or maybe you’ll mix it with something else. So like here in the Pacific Northwest on a really cold, rainy, heavy, wet, earthy-element day, if you’re not feeling super light and buoyant in your energy — maybe you’re feeling a little depressed — if you were to choose to eat something delicious like ice cream that’s very earth and water elementy, that would accentuate those elements.

Jason: So this is a great day for fudge.

Fudge.

[16:53] Or if you’re feeling really spaced out and you need to focus, maybe don’t go for some light, airy popcorn. But it’s not that you can’t ever have that kind of stuff — it’s about choosing wisely. Or if you’re going to have that ice cream because you just really want it, great. But maybe drink some ginger tea with it, or something with a little spice — something that could bring some fire to help you digest it and help counterbalance those elements.

Jason: So I can like always eat some fried chicken while I listen to Earth, Wind & Fire. That works.

Sure. I mean, that’s legit.

[17:23] Let’s see how that goes for you. We should do a longitudinal study on that.

But this is just a very basic idea. It’s a 5,000-year-old science. There’s lots that goes into it, but you can be very simple with it as well, and it can be really beneficial.

Jason: I like the old sciences.

I like the idea of it, too, because you’re placing the control of your health with the person.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

Whereas western medicine, you know, we go to the doctor to have a doctor fix us, go to the doctor to get imaging, to

[17:54] get medicine. Like, “Oh, this one pill’s definitely — I need this injection because it’s going to fix me,” right? And this sounds like, “Oh, I’m giving the power to you to help heal yourself.”

Yeah, it’s definitely more about education and offering tools, and it offers you the opportunity to really be honest with yourself, which can be challenging — you know, our habits are the things that add up and lead us to where we are. So really thinking about: is this choice that I’m

[18:24] making now in the moment going to serve me in the long run towards my goals, not — you know, and you get to choose and be a little maybe more conscious of the choices that you’re making. Jason: Your habits will make you live and they will also make you die. So it very much is a choice, and it’s the things that you do over time. Right. So, you had mentioned earlier off camera — you went to India. Did you go to India to learn this?

[18:55] Kathy: I did. Yeah. So I did a program in Seattle and then at the end of it there was an opportunity to go study in Kerala, which is the southern part of India, and I got to go there for 3 weeks to work and study at a women’s clinic and receive — there’s a lot of bodywork treatments that are part of the practice. So that’s something that I was doing in my body work practice, but to get to go and really receive the authentic treatments was amazing. Lots

[19:25] of times there are multiple practitioners working on you, which is like super — Jason: Yes. Sign me up. Kathy: Yes. Jason: Sign me up. Body of Health Chiropractic and Ayurveda center. Did I say it right? Kathy: Ayurveda. Jason: Ayurveda. Okay. Nice. Cool. Um — oh. Oh yes. Okay. I remember my question now. So you two actually work together though, right? So,

[19:55] you help — I know you recently did kind of a like a workshop or a class helping people who are just getting into exercise, and I’m wondering how did that go and like what do you say to help people who might be listening, and by now their New Year’s resolution is kaput. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: Right. They’re like, I failed. Kathy: I couldn’t even make a streak. So, let’s talk to those people and tell us more about what you do to

[20:26] help people get into it. Kathy: Yeah. So, shout out to Helix Training. I am now coaching there and teaching strength and conditioning, which is awesome. And we just did a six-week series on the fundamentals of strength training, and it was awesome. We had great folks show up. They were really into it. And gosh, how do we talk about where you start? We kind of just made a lot of space for questions and said that we were going to

[20:57] go slow and take things one at a time, really emphasizing that there’s not one right way to do anything, but there’s probably an optimal way for your body to do that. And it’s not necessarily that you’re even in the optimal place for you, but because we all have these tendencies and habits — you were talking about sitting in your intro — that’s going to have repercussions in your body physically. Jason: Oh, I feel it right now. Kathy: Yeah. I feel like you should be standing to do this podcast — just to do the podcast dance real quick.

[21:29] Okay. But where are you now and what kind of movements do you want to do? That is a process in addition to the actual training. So just being okay with where we are in this moment, and doing things little bits at a time, and letting yourself become familiar with the movements, letting your nervous system respond to that and navigating that. And then letting things grow kind of organically. Jason: I like that. And you know, I think one

[22:00] of the things — there are systems of movement and exercise and activity where they describe it as a practice, right? Like martial arts is a practice, yoga is a practice. And I think that that is really kind of helpful because it doesn’t start people out from a place where it’s like you need perfect form and you need to be able to do the maximum number of reps and everything like that. Whereas our attitude towards going to the gym is very much like I have to be wearing the

[22:30] right clothes and I have to be doing the maximum number of reps and if somebody walks by and looks at me I’m going to be very embarrassed if everything isn’t looking perfect. And just as you were saying that I was like, man, if more people thought of what they’re doing — like whatever their system is for exercise — as a practice, like “this is my gym practice,” maybe that would be more helpful. Because I think that people who are practicing yoga or practicing martial arts, they tend to stick with it because it’s kind of an

[23:00] identity that you take on. Jason: Yeah, this class was amazing for Helix. It was kind of a dream that Amy taught it too. She’s again so versatile, because I went to one of her classes just to kind of meet everybody that was in class. So basically she taught the fundamentals of all the important lifts that we do and gave people permission on how to squat, how to deadlift, how to do the bench press, overhead press. I mean those sound like scary exercises to

[23:30] people that haven’t done it, but when you have somebody like Amy — like an expert — showing these people how to do it, and she does it in such a compassionate way, and she starts the class off with some great mobility drills — she’s just got so much in her toolbox that I mean, it was so amazing to have at my gym, because that is exactly what I want Helix to be: an open, accessible place where people come to learn those things. Kathy: Aw, thanks, that’s so nice to hear that. Jason: Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was amazing and

[24:01] we’re going to run it again. Kathy: Yep. Jason: For sure. We’re going to run it again. But yeah, it was — I got such great feedback from people, like emails and texts about how great it was, and so I appreciate you, but I’m saying it again. Kathy: Aw, so good. Jason: Yeah. All right. So I feel like we just get to pick cool things out of your life, and I know that you go to New York — like what is it, every year? Kathy: Oh yeah. Jason: Yeah. To swing some kettlebells. Kathy: To swing kettlebells with my other kettlebell nerd friends. Jason: Yes. So tell us about that. So, I found

[24:34] a trainer online. I have two teachers online that I work with. And one of them is in New York, and I just love her. She’s a fantastic teacher. She’s really cultivated a community. We’re on these WhatsApp channels or chats, probably a little more than we should be, but there’s sort of a subset of us that really love to do kettlebell work. Jason: It’s kind of a kettlebell cult. Kathy: You know, we call ourselves the Swing Supremes. Jason: The Swing Supremes, Kathy: which is better than just the Swingers.

[25:04] So, hey. Yeah. Hey, come have a swinging good time. Who wants to swing tonight? But we get to get together. So far, we’ve done it twice annually and get to work with our teacher in person because people are all over the world in this. And it’s so wild. You know, that’s one of the best things that happened — silver lining from the pandemic — is having access to people and trainings, but to get to connect with these people. And I’ve been seeing them once a week. Well, in just the kettlebell class, but multiple classes

[25:35] through the week for years, and you really get to know them, and then when you get to hang out together — yeah, it’s just super fun. Oh, that’s awesome. I feel like I need a kettlebell tribe or something like that. Yeah. Well, I want to start teaching like a kettlebell focused class at Helix, so I’ll let you know. Done. Yeah, totally. There’s so much you can do with it. And and maybe a jump rope class, too. And a jump rope class and a roller skate jump rope class. Yeah, exactly.

[26:05] Yeah, exactly. So, if you could like let’s say that you had unlimited budget and you wanted to build the ultimate like movement experience for people. Um, what would that look like? Ask me a harder question. Okay. Um, and I want you to answer this blindfolded. You have 20 seconds. Like what? Okay. Okay. So, I’ll ask you this like we’ll break it down. All right. What would be the setting, first of all? Second of all, like who would be the

[26:36] people that are there? What would be the modalities that you would want there? And then what would be like the outcome that you would be looking for? Okay. You legit just made that question harder. I did. It would definitely — You asked me — you literally asked me to make it harder and I did. Yes, you nailed it. Um, there’d have to be an indoor-outdoor component because — um, and not even if you’re doing like an outdoor oriented exercise — at my — we — you guys know I live

[27:06] in a really tiny little cabin in the woods out in the forest there. I just found this out. I didn’t know she lived in a tiny cabin in the woods. Yeah. Elsie. Oh my gosh. Cool. Okay. Add it to the list. All right. She harvests chicken eggs. Free-range chickens. They’re very happy chickens. They do yoga actually. Yes, they’re neurotic chickens. So, there’s a fair amount of exercising in the living room, but Mark built me a rad little outdoor space because I can’t jump rope inside. That is so smart. It’s the most

[27:37] So, it’s like this little shed and I’ve got my rower out there, but I’m outside and it just smells good and the deer walk by and like you’re just in the fresh air. So, I’m not jump roping, you know, like it’s not like when you can run and you get to go take a nature walk or go for a bike ride, but still being outdoors. So there’s some forest, some woods there or some trees, fresh oxygen. So there’d be an indoor-outdoor component. I’d really want to have water available. So, got to have a pool. Um, I mean all the good functional

[28:10] equipment. Probably something really fun. Like, have you ever been to one of those trampoline centers? Yeah. Yeah. That’s — they’re great for business. Oh, really? Yeah. I just go there with a handful of cards and just like — well, to be fair, I’ve only been once, but that was pretty fun. Like the floor and the walls were — yeah, we went for a birthday. It was exhausting. It was the grossest, sweatiest birthday party ever. It was so fun. Yeah. Like, my kids — they all grow — they want to go, “Oh, let’s go to Get Air” and stuff like that. My really, really

[28:41] my favorite thing to do there is I just mosey on over to where everybody’s playing dodgeball. Oh, yeah. And because it is a place where as an adult it’s legal just to throw a ball as hard as you can at a child. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hard enough to actually make them flip in the air. And it’s encouraged. It’s like it’s part of the fun. So yeah, I’m familiar with trampoline parks. Love them. So you’ve got to have some quiet space, your more like inner work practices, group space. Um, yeah. And then just

[29:12] have a really good staff of like super diverse people that are interested in all different kinds of things. Kind of guessing all the men have man buns. I was like, are there even any females? I mean, nothing against men, but dang it. Sorry, Raul. You can’t — I think you can count. Yeah, we’re out. We’re out. So, you have to apply for entry. Absolutely. Okay. So, which includes a

[29:43] competitive — It’s Wonder Woman Island. Yeah. Wonder Woman Island. Oh my. What? No. Come on. No. Trademark. I’m trademarking. Oh, trademark that immediately, quickly before they take it. I mean, I feel like Helix — we’re kind of like crushing it that way. We’re close. Okay. So, who are the — okay, so we we have these instructor ladies. They’re ladies — all women. It’s indoor-outdoor. You got all the equipment there. There’s all the

[30:14] breeze, all the smells. Who are the people that are going to go to Wonder Woman Island? I mean, everybody. Everybody. Not to be flippant, but like who wouldn’t go? Can — also sure. Okay, great. Yeah. As long as you’re like check your vibe at the door. Go at the door. Can’t — no gym bros. But no gym bros. I mean, honestly, I would welcome gym bros because they might turn over like a different leaf. You just have to be open-minded, right? Because that’s the whole thing about um

[30:44] you maybe don’t know what style of movement you want to do yet, but when you’re open to it and then everything overlaps too. So, um, coming with like a growth mindset for sure would be would be a prerequisite, but having people — so, I have really gotten interested lately in um dynamic neuromuscular stabilization, DNS. Yeah, you had another practitioner — I can’t remember their name — talking about that. Oh, let’s see. I think

[31:14] Kathy: Was it David who maybe talked about that? Jason: Sports chiropractor? Kathy: Yes, that was him. Jason: Yeah, it was David. Yeah. Yeah. Kathy: Um, yeah, David Newton. That’s who it was. Yeah, DNS. Good stuff. Jason: Yeah. Kathy: I’m actually going to take a class from Brett Winchester, who is a DNS instructor. He’s a really good chiropractor. Works — oh, no. It was Taylor. That’s who it was. It was Taylor. Trying to think of his name, but yes, it wasn’t — it was Taylor Primer. Yes. He worked with Brett Winchester. Yes. Okay. Jason: Oh, cool. You’re going to do that soon for some continuation.

[31:44] Kathy: I’m not — I want to do DNS, but Brett’s going to be doing an — it’s an extremity adjusting class, so — yes, but DNS is good stuff. All about breath and tension in the core and everything. So, yeah. Yeah. Jason: So you were saying about it before I rudely interrupted. Kathy: Oh, no. That’s just something that I’m interested in. I just recently did my Functional Range Conditioning Mobility Specialist certification. And so there are these therapeutic modalities that I feel like belong in a

[32:15] regular gym movement space because they’re vital to moving your body well. And then you get to these bigger lifts and things become possible and even fun when your movement efficiency is on point. Jason: Like the things that you become capable of — it’s, I think, really startling. And when you surprise yourself, that level of empowerment, especially when it’s coming from physical means — I don’t know. It’s a big part of my life. And I feel like — not really self-esteem, but just feeling good

[32:47] and grounded in my body, you know what I mean? Kathy: Yeah. Jason: What — do you have a couple things you learned from this past weekend? Kathy: Okay. It’s always fun to talk about something that you just did. Jason: Trained this past weekend. Was that the —

Kathy: The free-range chicken movement? Jason: Yes. Kathy: Was it — Jason: Actually, what was it again? Kathy: So, Functional Range Conditioning — Jason: Yes. Kathy: Mobility Specialist is the cert that I Jason: achieved. Kathy: That’s so many letters. Part of this Functional Range System, which is a way

[33:19] of looking at mobility specifically and movement — specifically like joint health. And it sort of — this is going to be the least articulate way of talking about something, I apologize. Jason: That is so on brand for the show. Kathy: On the show, the least articulate — that’s what we’re shooting for. Jason: It sort of — one of the unique places it can be is if somebody leaves physical therapy and they want to resume training. There’s a little bit of a gap

[33:49] potentially — maybe what got them injured before was, you know, unless it was a traumatic injury — Jason: like a bear attack. Kathy: Yeah. Or falling on your surfboard. You know what I mean? Jason: Sure. Tore my MCL. Kathy: But, you know, poor movement mechanics can lead to those overuse, overtraining injuries, and then you do your PT. But if you haven’t really done the relearning, the movement education, and you just jump back into training, there’s potential for you to just do the same injury

[34:21] again, right? Jason: The idea is always to want to go back better than — Kathy: Yes. Jason: Yes. Like the joke that I use with people is: I’m going to give you these exercises, and if you do them, then hopefully it helps you to skip your next episode of pain. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: But not the episode after that, ‘cause I have kids in college. Kathy: Okay. You limited them on how much they can — Jason: Every other episode now, just so that you know, just so I get some. No, just kidding. Kathy: No, but excuse me. Ideally you could help somebody be

[34:52] better to the point where they never need you again, Jason: which would be awesome. Kathy: Ideal, right? Jason: Yeah, it’s ideal for me. Kathy: It sounds — but it sounds like she might be doing something dangerous. Jason: Teaching people to get their knees over their toes. Kathy: Oh, no. Oh jeez. Jason: Oh jeez. I — goodness. I had a conversation with a healthcare provider today and they were talking about how they were instructing a patient to be careful of getting their knees over their toes, and I just had

[35:22] to bite my lip. I was like, “Okay, Jason: you’re just going to walk upstairs for the rest of your life and Kathy: can only escalator down.” Jason: Yeah. Kathy: Did you send a link to the show? Jason: I didn’t yet. Kathy: Yeah. I just — I have to think of a way to lovingly say you should have those knees over those toes. Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay. Anyway, so I interrupted. So tell — so with the free — okay, one more time. Free — Functional — Jason: Functional Range Conditioning. Kathy: Functional Range Conditioning. So can

[35:53] you give me an idea or an example of like, if you were training me in this, what’s an activity that we might do in order to improve that ability? Jason: Okay. So we potentially would start with a general assessment utilizing CARs, which are Controlled Articular Rotations. Kathy: Thank you. Not the ones that I drive. I was like, what are we doing in cars? Jason: I’m going to judge you by what you roll up in, and then we’re going to see how many appointments I should have. It’s like I live my life a quarter

[36:24] mile at a time. Kathy: Yes. Jason: Yeah. It’s called the Fast and Furious Functional Range. Yeah. Finally got it. Finally. Okay. All right. Cool. Jason: So, those aren’t just joint circles, but they are circular movements. We would go joint by joint. And then it’s sort of like a decision tree that we would be looking at. So if you have any pain or restriction in perhaps the closing angle

[36:55] of your movement, I would take you down a different pathway of getting that joint capsule to open up first. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: Get more range of motion available to you and strengthen that range of motion. And we would be utilizing PAILs and RAILs, Kathy: which are Progressive Angular Isometric Loading exercises. Jason: There’s a lot of acronyms in this. Kathy: That’s funny. That’s one of the things my teacher said. He’s like, “We got to stop using acronyms for everything.” Jason: It’s just — this is a very corporate system, right? It’s like, we need an acronym. Kathy: It seems like it could be. It’s probably

[37:26] The closest that I’ll ever get to any kind of corporate work. Jason: Yeah. Judging from my resume. Kathy: Yeah. But using a lot of isometric loading and working at end range or to end range, because, you know, we’ve got this active range of motion that is usually — I don’t know, I would say 100% of the time — never as broad as our passive range of motion. But through this training you can start to reclaim some of that passive range and make it active.

Jason: So real quick though, for for people at

[37:57] home — passive versus active range —

Kathy: I can’t say —

Jason: motion —

Kathy: rusher rusher, you know —

Jason: yeah, the passive rusher musher.

Kathy: Active range of motion is how far I can move it.

Jason: Yes.

Kathy: Passive range of motion is how far some outside force, like another person, can move it.

Jason: Yes.

Kathy: Okay.

Jason: Yes. Gently move it. Testing. Yeah. Or with gravity, you know, those kinds of things. And the more facility you have through that range of motion, the

[38:28] better you are able to control it, and also like dial up or dial down the amount of muscular engagement you’re using. So you can really finesse your movement and what you’re recruiting. And then also, you guys know — obviously I don’t need to tell you, but for our

Kathy: listeners and viewers —

Jason: listeners at home —

Kathy: those end ranges of motion are the most precarious because we’re the weakest there. They’re the most extreme angles. I’m sure many of us have reached into the back seat to grab a bag, and that sort of extreme angle for the shoulder

[38:59] is dangerous, or can be. So looking at that kind of range of motion and then finding balance in the body so that you’re able to go on and do whatever activities you want to do — external lifting. It’s also a really internally based strength system. So you’re recruiting from the inside out versus always externally loading. So it kind of naturally progresses you into external loads if you want to, which is a great way to look at training and having the

[39:29] prerequisites. You mentioned overhead pressing before, and that’s something that I see a lot because of that sitting posture we were talking about, right? You don’t have that overhead range. And then if I’m asking you to press — I feel like it’s incumbent upon me as a good teacher to either get you there in a prepared way, or to give you an alternative exercise if that range of motion isn’t there, because we talked about optimal movement.

Jason: Optimal or perfect, I think the word was

[40:01] before.

Kathy: Perfect for me is safe. Yes. You know, and then we can work on stuff from there. So this would be tools that I would use in teaching

Jason: to get us there.

Kathy: I like that. Yeah, that is so good. So if we could go back to Wonder Woman Island for a second.

Jason: Oh, yeah. We are there.

Kathy: I have two questions. Yeah. So, one is — what is maybe the unique activity that you would do there? If we’re like showing the brochure for Wonder Woman

[40:31] Island, like what’s the thing where people are like, “Oh my gosh, we’re going to go there and this is going to be the training experience. What’s the awesome thing that would happen there?” Like, what’s the awesome thing that you would have everybody do that would make movement fun or interesting or really effective?

Jason: I mean, it might be jump rope.

Kathy: It might be jump rope. Okay.

Jason: Yeah. Because I think again, when you do your prerequisite training for that and you’ve got the foot health, the lower leg strength — you know, it’s also a great way — well, so

[41:02] you can use jump rope to treat those things, but it’s also a great way to treat your pelvic floor. So you’re getting all of your cardiorespiratory benefits and then it’s just fun. The brain gains are bananas when you’re starting to —

Kathy: Yeah.

Jason: — learning different stuff. You’re doing novel exercise. So, not just like — not last night, but the night before. Oh, whoa, what? Yo, what?

Kathy: Double unders. So boring, man.

Jason: Okay, maybe maybe I need to be doing more jump roping, but we’re talking like double unders and everything like that.

[41:32] Kathy: Yeah. So, like double unders, crossovers, there’s stuff where one arm goes behind your back, you can side swing into it, you turn around, there’s stuff where you like release and then catch it. It’s all like whole choreography. I mean, I could — seen this on TikTok if you’re interested. For sure.

Jason: So, Wonder Woman Island is also jump rope camp.

Kathy: For sure.

Jason: No doubt.

Kathy: And also because it doesn’t matter, right? You know, like who cares if you’re good at jump rope or not? It’s so fun to learn and try. You laugh so much,

[42:03] you know? And it’s also a good like mental fortitude game. Like, how much can I be compassionate towards myself when I can’t get something like everybody? So, I’m in a jump rope club. Yeah. Yeah. We meet once a week. Secretary, treasurer of the jump rope club.

Jason: There’s definitely been moments when everybody has just thrown their jump rope. You know, it’s a good thing we’re all on mute, cuz you’d probably hear a lot of like potty mouth talk. Do you need to wear eye protection while you jump rope?

Kathy: My one friend in the club

[42:36] will pop on her sick Ray-Ban bands because — some — I have definitely hit myself in the face. Some things just go awry.

Jason: I mean, let’s just say there’s a reason I asked.

Kathy: Yeah. Why would you ask such a question?

Jason: That’s a crazy question, right? You know, one one could imagine.

Kathy: Yeah.

Jason: I feel like shin guards should probably be something you —

Kathy: Well, you definitely smack yourself in the butt a lot when you’re trying to like

Jason: Yeah. do your crossovers, cuz part of when you get —

Kathy: Oh, you’re talking about jump ropes

[43:06] still. I was just — I was thinking about just in general. I was like, “Yeah, I smacked myself in the butt a lot.” Hey, big guy. Good job. Oh, that was a good job. Hey, great adjustment.

Jason: Oh my god, I need you. Can you refer me to a new chiropractor?

Kathy: There’s a great place in town just down the street.

Jason: Yeah, you you should just start seeing Dr. Lily —

Kathy: also at Body of Health.

Jason: Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. But I did try to stuff towels in my leggings when I was first learning, because I legit was so bad at crossovers.

[43:37] Kathy: How long have you been doing like the high-level jump roping for? Um, probably three or four years now. Really? I think. Yeah. Jason: So, is it hard to get started? Kathy: Well, my teacher, shout out to Beth Lewis. I love Jason: Beth, Beth. Kathy: Did a jump rope for happy knees course that was like a six or eight week course and we learned basics and we did all of that prerequisite lower leg and foot training. And then if you were into it, which obviously I was, she had a set of skills that she wanted you to be able to do and a little bit of like

[44:08] stamina proficiently and then you could join the club. And I think she’s had the club maybe for six years or so. Wow. Jason: And again, it’s people all over. Kathy: And so we’ll work on skills, we’ll work on choreography, these little ditties that she makes up and then, you know, play with speed, play with doing it on your opposite side. Jason: It just keeps you interested. Kathy: Yeah. Um, yeah. But you got to be okay with like smacking yourself on the bottoms a couple times. Ropes. Yeah. I tried to stuff towels in there. That did not work

[44:38] because as you jump, they just went down into my leggings. Like it was not cute. But again, I’m just out in my shed doing this so nobody was there to witness it. Jason: So if people want to start up on this, like, but they haven’t jump roped since they were 12, like what advice would you give them? Kathy: Okay, we did this a little bit in our intro to strength class. Yeah. Um, working on like soft tissue work on your feet. So, a little bit of like pinky ball mobility and then working on

[45:08] um stretching and strengthening the arch of the foot, some short foot exercises, getting your toe mobility, working on soleus strength, making sure your Achilles are good, and then one of the things that we’ve been doing a lot in class are banded pogos. So, when you’ve got a nice thick band, exercise band hung from, you know, your chin-up bar or whatever, you can hold it in tight to your body and do these bounces and it takes some of your body weight off. Jason: So, you’re not starting with full body weight jumps right away because especially

[45:38] if you have a history — I mean, almost anywhere in your body, but any leg stuff, foot stuff going on, pelvic floor — Kathy: you want — you have a history of a lot of body weight. Jason: Yeah, absolutely. You know, you want to ramp up slowly. So you got to keep your dose, your volume accordingly. Use the tools that you have to, um, yeah, mitigate body weight so you’re not just jumping into the deep end because that’s how you get hurt. That’s how you get frustrated, you know. Kathy: I can’t remember

[46:08] what training it was in. Jason: Oh, it might have been in the Mike Boyle certification that we did. Kathy: He was talking about how vital it is to not get injured because of the repercussions of having to take time off. And I know we’re all rocking it in our middle age now, but like I don’t want to take time off and lose whatever gains I’ve made and then come back at it in six weeks or six months or a year and be that much further down the road trying to gain tissue back that I lost

[46:38] or mobility. So I’d always rather have my students wake up feeling like, “Oh, I think I could have pushed a little more weight.” Yes. Jason: You know, or I could have done another set versus, uh oh, I did too much. Yeah. Yeah. Can your friend Kathy or Jason get me for an appointment? Yeah. Lily. Dr. Lily. Kathy: I love the idea of jumping rope for older people, too. I don’t want everyone to just start jumping rope. That’s why I asked the question. You have to be

[47:08] ready for it. But I love it. Jason: Certain level of fitness for sure. Kathy: Yeah. What I love about it is a couple things. One, for bone density. Jason: Yeah. Right. Kathy: But also number two, for power, right? When you’re jumping rope, you are training those fast twitch fibers. And that’s a lot of times what happens — why people fall when they’re older — because they’re not training those fast twitch fibers. And so when they stumble, they don’t have the quickness to catch themselves. Kathy: Yeah. Get a foot under. Jason: Yeah. And so I love that idea. Kathy: And you lose your power so quickly. I

[47:40] can’t remember the statistic — I heard that you lose your power ability even faster than you lose your strength as we age, which is devastating. Jason: Yeah. Kathy: Yeah. But the elastic quality of your fascia too, and having that trained, and then coordination — um, my teacher and her associate are specifically doing some research around movement and prevention of neurodegenerative disease and one of the modalities that they’ve been studying is jump rope because of the coordination, the novelty of it, the movement. And you

[48:11] don’t have to skip the rope the whole time. There’s stuff you can do with both handles in one hand. When I couldn’t do speed work because I stunk — um, and I would keep tripping on it, I couldn’t build any endurance — so I started working with two ropes in my hand. So, I wasn’t tripping on it, but I could work on the speed, the agility, the endurance, and then finally that came. So, there’s all kinds of cool creative ways you can modify. Jason: Yeah. Well, it’s — I think it’s good too because um rhythm is important in

[48:42] health, and so like jumping rope requires some rhythm. Kathy: If you have rhythm, it’s easier to be coordinated. It’s also easier to avoid falls and things like that. So, rhythm essentially is coordination. They’re kind of the same thing. And so, it’s a good way to train that. Jason: Yeah, that’s really, really interesting. And there’s got to be a part of your brain, or some system — I don’t know the name of it — but the ability to toggle what’s important. So

[49:13] with jump rope, your hands are like the metronome and you can’t think about — Kathy: your reticular activating system. Jason: Yeah. So like as you’re doing — we’ll do like shuffle footwork. So like the running man — I know you can running man, right? But you have to keep that going. But it’s got to be like a background program in your brain so that you can focus on whatever your footwork is doing. And then also in the large picture, you have to be able to relax into it. In general, if you’re thinking too much about what you’re doing, the processing is too slow. You know, it’s

[49:43] Kathy: Kind of like similar to tap dancing. Jason: Sure. Kathy: That way. Jason: Yeah. Oh, no. She’s going to start talking about tap dancing. Kathy: And can I just clarify for like the kids watching this? This is not the running man. Okay, you idiots. All right. Running man on that beat. This is not the running man. Okay. The running man is a complex dance from the ’90s. It’s very complex. Jason: Yes. If you watch some Vanilla Ice videos, you’ll see with the Roger Rabbit, you know, did a fair amount of that, too. Kathy: Yeah. Very, very good dances. Jason: A lot of good ’90s dance moves.

[50:13] Kathy: Yeah, totally. So then the last question regarding Wonder Woman Island — Jason: okay — Kathy: is like, what when people leave the island, what are they leaving with? I mean, probably like a really dope tiara and some sick guns. Just — Jason: But like on the inside, like what are they going to — what are they going to learn about themselves? Like what’s going to be different about them?

[50:44] Kathy: I mean, I feel like we’ve touched on so much of it, but just like the sheer surprise of what you are truly capable of. Jason: Yeah. Kathy: You know, and that you get to decide what you want to do and how you want to do it, too. Like, you’re the master of your own situation. Nobody’s here to tell you how to move, what to do with your body, like what music to do it to, how fast to jump your rope to, you know — do you want to do some dope stuff? And you just leave feeling like, do some dope stuff. Jason: Yeah. And you’ve probably met some cool

[51:15] people. You’re probably inspired. You definitely have that, you know, endorphin cleansing effect of like regulation. I mean, that’s the other thing about when you’re trying to do something like jump rope, you kind of can’t ruminate so much on whatever’s going on in your life. So if you can at least give yourself that mental break for an hour or 20 minutes or what have you, like what resources are then available to you for the rest of your day Kathy: after you’ve had that — like, you know, that’s part of like what dance has done

[51:45] for me my whole life. I can’t go to class and just space out about whatever I’m stressed out about. I have to be focusing on what’s happening and taking in information. And Jason: yeah, Kathy: I love it. I’m a huge fan of Wonder Woman Island. Jason: We’re going to check you at the door. We will likely allow you in, but there will be some questions Kathy: okay Jason: that you have to answer. Kathy: Yeah, for sure. An audition process. Jason: Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. All right. Can we talk about — real quick — I want to

[52:15] talk about your jewelry. Kathy: Oh, yeah. What kind of stuff do you like to make? Guest: I really — I love to make lots of different stuff, of course. I have fallen into this cool niche where I make anniversary jewelry. And I should say Mark and I do this business together. He makes some of the jewelry, but he does all of the photography and the web design and SEO. He’s a genius at that. Jason: We got to have Mark on, I think. Yeah, Guest: you should. You should talk about sound meditation.

[52:45] Jason: About what meditation? Guest: He does sound meditation. Kathy: He does sound baths. Guest: Mhm. Jason: Yeah, you guys should go and then have him in, ‘cause you could get into like real woo-woo and science. Kathy: Okay. Yes. Let’s get crazy. Guest: But yeah, so I studied metal smithing and glass work. There’s a really great school in Seattle. All kinds of different stuff, but jewelry was really what caught my eye.

[53:15] And I had a really great class from a blacksmith that taught us blacksmithing for jewelers. Jason: He was Black. Guest: He was, and his last name was Smith. Jason: Yeah. Wow. His name was Smith. Wow. Okay. Guest: So I started working with iron and steel and I really — really like those metals. I like the way they look. I like — yeah, just the aesthetic they have, the strength, what they offer. And so I had made stuff in silver, in gold, in steel and put it up on Etsy, and not my targeted customers

[53:48] started buying it. It was like a lot of gentlemen. And I was like, “Okay, cool.” Like I’m happy to make sales, but I didn’t know what was going on until somehow somebody said something about their anniversary, their wife. And so we Googled, you know, how there’s like the Hallmark — or I don’t know who started it — but like anniversary year one is paper. So six is iron, year 11 is steel. And it’s a great way to stand out in a huge sea of people making jewelry. And I get to sort of dip into

[54:19] people’s lives and be part of their celebration when they’re like in love and happy. It’s really cool. So now I work with copper and bronze and aluminum. I’m filling out the years between 5 and 11. And I’ve learned a lot about like the wedding industry, Jason: really, Guest: which is weird. How long most marriages last — like why do I sell a lot — or not weddings, marriages — anniversarily Jason: which is probably the leading cause of

[54:50] divorce Guest: and that most people get married between like April and October. So I have a busy season that I can sort of prepare for. And Jason: we’re going to have to put a link to your shop in the show notes. Guest: That would be great. That would also be a good place like if anybody wanted to contact me about movement stuff — like Jason: it’s dirty — Guest: dirty pretty — Jason: dirty pretty — Guest: artwear. I like that — artwear, not artwork. It’s artwear. Jason: Yeah, ‘cause it’s art that you wear everywhere. Guest: I really like it as an idea. I might

[55:20] have some regrets about it because people are like, “What is that word? You just made it up.” It’s not super searchable. But I am an artist. Jason: Yeah. If you search it, it goes to you. So that’s awesome. Yeah. You could be the most interesting person we’ve ever had on the show. Oh my gosh. Yes. Bar none. So yeah, just — I feel like we could be like, “Tell us your favorite Jell-O recipe.” And you’d be like, “Well, Kathy: do you like lemon Jell-O? Jason: Do you like collagen?” Kathy: There she goes. See, she — yeah.

[55:50]

Jason: Well, can we play a game?

Kathy: Yeah.

Jason: Like, I know — that’s the whole reason that you came on.

Kathy: It is kind of part of why I said yes. So, along with your like just copious list of skills and abilities, along somewhere probably towards the top of that list is PTCH Podcast super fan.

Kathy: Oh, yeah, for sure. I can’t believe you say that about me.

Jason: Anytime.

Kathy: I know.

Jason: Because I have a four-hour commute.

Kathy: Oh, yeah.

Jason: Well, two hours each way.

Kathy: Yeah.

Jason: Okay. So we are going to play PTCH

[56:22] Podcast super fan trivia, right? And in this game, you’re going to be asked trivia questions about maybe the most important podcast in the world.

Kathy: Definitely.

Jason: And that way—

Kathy: Yes. Yeah, definitely trending that way.

Jason: You guys are huge in India now, right?

Kathy: Huge in India. Huge in India. Shout out to my Indians, my Ayurvedic listeners out there. So, all right. I got eight questions here for you.

Kathy: All right. And I — gosh, I kind of think she’s going to eat this up.

[56:52] I had to actually even change one around, I think, because you gave the answer to it mid-show. We’ll see if it comes up.

Kathy: Am I competing against Raul? Because he hasn’t been here the whole time, right?

Jason: Raul doesn’t know enough about the podcast.

Kathy: Okay. Yeah, I was going to say—

Jason: Yeah, we’re going to give Raul a break on this one. But next episode, I actually have a good role for Raul. It’s going to be fun. It’s a role for Raul. Okay. Anyway, sorry. That’s terrible. All right. Here we go. Question number one. Ready?

Kathy: Okay. In a recent episode of the PTCH Podcast, we compared discussing our

[57:23] favorite rehab gadgets to a famous segment on which iconic TV talk show?

Kathy: What?

Jason: Yes. Yes.

Kathy: Hold on. Let me think. I’m like, you talked about NMES. You talked about the vibration plate. Like, I can name all those things.

Jason: Yes. You know the episode, but we discussed our favorite rehab gadgets and we compared it to a famous segment on which iconic TV talk show? Think iconic

[57:54] TV talk shows for a clue. The name of the episode was “Favorite Things.”

Kathy: Oh, well — is Oprah gonna give me a free one if I win?

Jason: Yes. Yes, it was Oprah. Very good. All right. How about this one? Number two. Who was the first guest to ever appear on the PTCH Podcast?

Kathy: Oo, that’s going to be hard because I started with the burpee episode.

Jason: Okay.

[58:24] That was — I think the episode — there were two episodes after that, because I think it was this person’s episode, then I think it was stretching, and then it was burpees.

Kathy: Mhm.

Jason: I’m not going to be able to do that.

Kathy: Oh, yes. Okay. What was the topic?

Jason: It was an OSU football player

Kathy: who was planning on becoming a chiropractor.

Jason: Yes. Yes. Very good. Jack Kane.

Kathy: Jack. That’s right.

Jason: Yes. Very good. Wow. She’s two for two. All right. Who is credited as having the original idea for the podcast that is

[58:55] now affectionately known as the PTCH Podcast?

Kathy: I thought it was Kathy’s idea.

Jason: It was Kathy’s idea. Yeah. Kathy came to me and said, “Jason, I think that we should have a podcast.” And I said, “Yes, I’m in.”

Kathy: Yeah, because you guys should definitely have another—

Jason: I needed zero details. Really?

Kathy: And I was 100% committed.

Jason: Say less. I’m in.

Kathy: Okay.

Jason: But I meant to say it was about the swamp.

Kathy: Yeah. It’s about Wonder Woman Island.

Jason: Yeah.

Kathy: Yes. Okay. Still—

Jason: Whatever that is, I’m in.

Kathy: Let me finish my thought.

[59:25] Yes. So number four. Why is the show called the PTCH Podcast? Because there’s no LMT in PTCH.

Jason: Not yet. Not yet.

Kathy: I feel like we’ve auditioned — Don last show, Amy this show. I feel like if for some reason one of us couldn’t make it, like either of you hosts could be a good guest host.

Jason: Maybe Don and I should start a podcast. Yeah. So this guy, he’s invited me on the podcast. He’s like, “Okay, we

[59:55] haven’t had a massage therapist on. This would be great to have you on.” And I’m like, “Sweet. I’m in.” Don Buttsner, massage therapist to the Olympians.

Jason: Don — Don’s ultra competitive and so it’s so on brand that he’s like, “I’m gonna get in one episode, one episode ahead of her.” Well, but you have a longer resume than Don. So, yeah, we

Kathy: probably more variety. I bet I do more roller skating than him.

Jason: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So the answer to the question —

Kathy: but why is it called?

[60:25] Because you’re a PT and a chiropractor.

Jason: Yes. PTC. Very good. Okay. What is the only sentence that is repeated verbatim in every single episode of the PTCH Podcast?

Kathy: That there’s no I in PTCH.

Jason: Very good. Okay. Yeah. See, looking at it. Yes. All right. That is five for five so far. Number six: which PTCH Podcast host was a college athlete?

Kathy: Kathy.

Jason: Absolutely. And number seven, what was the subject of the only PTCH

[60:55] Podcast episode that was not shot in this studio?

Kathy: Well, that would be easier if I watched the podcast versus listening.

Jason: Oh, that’s true.

Kathy: That’s true.

Jason: Um—

Kathy: Okay.

Jason: I don’t know. Did you ever do anything on location?

Kathy: No, this was kind of branded as sort of a filler episode, like a teaser — “this is what extra content might look like.”

Kathy: Oh, yes. I don’t remember that one.

Jason: Uh huh.

Kathy: You don’t remember what we talked about?

[61:25] No.

Jason: Okay. That was Chris Quaka. We talked about the health benefits of giving.

Kathy: Giving.

Jason: Oh, yeah. I did listen to that one.

Kathy: Yes. Great show.

Jason: Yeah. Really good. All right. Final question. Who is the youngest guest to ever appear in person on the PTCH Podcast?

Kathy: Oh, it’s got to be your boy.

Jason: That’s my boy Austin. Very good. Very good. Seven out of eight. That’s fantastic. You are officially the preeminent PTCH Podcast super fan.

Kathy: I’m president PTCH.

[61:55] Kathy: Yes, you — you are that pretty quickly. You’re not calling pitches anymore. Jason: You are the chief pitch. Kathy: Yes. Uh-huh. Jason: I have a major pitch. Sure is. Kathy: The pitchiest pitch there is. Jason: There isn’t a better pitch. Kathy: Yeah, we got to get her like a pitch podcast t-shirt or something like that. So, yeah, absolutely. So, let’s do our takeaways. Jason: Okay. Kathy: You start. I’m like a primeval hodgepodge of it also. Sorry. Jason: Meditate on it. Kathy: So much. I loved it.

[62:25] I usually think ahead of time. Do you have one? I’ll start. Well, one of the things that really kind of — like was happening in my head while you were talking about this — I think it’s something we all have in common is when we’re trying to get people moving, we start with what do you love? Like what do you really like to do? ‘Cause that’s going to be what’s going to be the most effective — if somebody is doing something they love, something that they enjoy, it’s going to work for them. And it sounds like you embody that. You have a lot of stuff that has meant things to you outside of like, “Hey, I

[62:57] need to get in shape” or “I’m trying to run fast from heart disease” or anything like that. And so I think that’s something that I’m going to be taking back again with me to my patients — is let’s start with things that are really going to make you happy so that you can really enjoy movement. So that came through to me today. Jason: Nice. I like that. Kathy: I got a couple things. One, I think Amy and I just started a new business venture. Jason: Wonder Woman items. That’s Kathy: — how’s that trademark coming? We got it. Yes.

[63:27] Jason: Got the URL. Kathy: We are officially part of the business now. Yes. Yes. Registered with the state of Oregon. So, number two — and I sort of already knew this about her, but I think it really comes through in the podcast — how personal you take this: helping people to move in their bodies and helping people just kind of optimize their movement, but also optimize their life and fun and joy. So I appreciate you so much for that. And Amy and I also share patients, and it’s again so fun to be

[63:59] able to share patients with Amy, because in fact just recently you asked one of our patients to start walking and she’s started walking and it’s going to be so helpful — I think for her mental health, for her stress — and so I just truly appreciate you. Jason: Yeah. Kathy: Awesome. It’s like optimizing your movement is optimizing your life, Jason: and there’s always a way to make it happen. Kathy: Yeah, you know. Jason: Mhm. With a rope. Kathy: Jason: All right. And I think — I think that there’s one more thing that we need to

[64:29] get to, and that is that there’s no “I” in pitch.