NFL Team Chiropractor Reveals All (12 Seasons w/ Seahawks) - Jim Kurtz, DC

[0:00] So, what happens if you crack a $40 quarterback’s back wrong on game day? I mean, I assume you get escorted out by security and never work in professional sports again. Yeah, pretty much. So, our guest today has adjusted Seattle Seahawks spines for over 12 seasons. That’s through the Legion of Boom, a Super Bowl win, and roughly 30,000 players where one wrong move could have ended his career. And yet, he was never fired. Jim Kurtz is here to tell us what NFL chiropractic actually looks like, and spoiler, it’s nothing like what you

[0:31] see on TikTok. We’re talking halftime chaos, $200 million bodies, and why every NFL team now has a chiropractor, but nobody seems to talk about it. Jason: Yes, this is the PTCH. What happens when a chiropractor and a physical therapist get together to make a health and wellness podcast? Kathy: Chiropractors and physical therapists don’t like each other. Jason: Oh, think again. I’m Dr. Kathy Lynch, physical therapist who likes to help people move and get stronger. Kathy: I’m Dr. Jason Young, an evidence-based chiropractor who uses humor just as much as adjustments to help people get better. Welcome to the PTCH

[1:02] Podcast. Remember, there’s no I in PTCH. Welcome back, everybody, to the PTCH Podcast. I’m Dr. Jason Young. Kathy: Oh, and I’m Dr. Kathy Lynch. Jason: Okay, and we haven’t changed. 60 episodes in, and we’re still the same people that we were when we started. Maybe this much smarter, so. Well, Kathy, I’ve found us a great guest today. Kathy: This is very exciting. Jason: Yes, this is Dr. Jim Kurtz. He is a chiropractor, retired chiropractor,

[1:34] which is honestly the job that I want. Kathy: But he somehow got — and Jim spent 12 seasons working as a chiropractor for the Seattle Seahawks. Jason: Cool. Yeah, really cool. So, welcome, Jim. Can you hear us? Jim: Thank you for having me. Jason: All right, great. So, Jim, let’s start with the question that everybody wants answers to. How’s retired life? Jim: Retired life is wonderful. Yeah, what

[2:04] day is it, Jim? Saturday or Sunday, I think. Yeah. Great. Hey, Jim, could you tell us how did you get started in chiropractic? Jim: I ruptured my Achilles tendon in my sophomore year in high school running cross country, and felt like — we’re talking, cuz I’m pretty ancient, we’re talking 1972.

[2:35] Jason: Okay. Shortly before I was born. Kathy: Okay, a long time before I was born. Continue. Jim: What’s that? Title IX was born that — oh gosh, yeah, all right. All right, so long ago. My recovery was not as quick or as wonderful as I had expected, and long story short, I just kind of thought, you know, I think I can do a better job than what they did on me, and

[3:05] that’s sort of started my thinking about healthcare, but not really sure what avenue I wanted. And then eventually I developed some back pain, trying to push through a poor running gait and probably a lot of lack of ankle dorsiflexion on that side, and found my way to a chiropractor and a physical therapist, and ended up going the chiropractic route. Jason: Nice. Awesome. So,

[3:35] other than — important question — why not physical therapy? Jim: I knew that was coming. Jason: Yeah, Jim, tell us everything that’s wrong with physical therapy. Jim: Not a thing. It was really kind of a toss of a coin, but you know, you guys are too young to know this, but I spent a year volunteering in the physical therapy department of my local hospital, and I loved it. Jason: Wow, cool. But in

[4:06] 1980 when I was doing that, physical therapists didn’t work in private practice. They were in hospitals or orthopedic settings. Kathy: Mhm. Jim: And couldn’t take a patient directly. Jason: Yeah. Jim: And I wanted to have a little more autonomy, and that’s really the only reason I went chiropractic. Jason: Cool. Yeah. Yeah, so you said coin toss. Would you describe that as losing the coin toss or winning the coin toss? Jim: I would have been happy with honestly

[4:36] with either one, to be honest. I’ve always been active care focused, and probably a lot of my treatments maybe looked a little bit more like physical therapy to a lot of people than chiropractic back in the day. So, to me — and my wife will tell you the same thing, cuz I practiced with my wife for many years. She’s an acupuncturist and a chiropractor. Our favorite thing about

[5:07] practice was the rehab aspect and changing people’s lives — Jason: Right. Jim: — in that regard. So, to me, they’re both great professions. I chose chiropractic, and it’s been very, very good to me. I really feel like our professions are very, very similar. We just sometimes use different tools, and sometimes use the same tools. And sometimes chiropractors go out and just do something crazy.

[5:37] Kathy: We always love that. We’re like, “See, they’re kooky.” Told you they were kooky. Jason: Sure. Yeah, I think a lot of people — you’ll hear very commonly that a good chiropractor and a good physical therapist are really hard to distinguish these days. Kathy: Yeah, if we both did an eval, they probably wouldn’t be able to figure out which one we were. Jason: Right. So let me ask you this then, not kind

[6:07] of related to the subject at hand, but an interesting question. Do you think that there will ever be a day when both of these professions grow into one where it’s just like you don’t have chiropractors or physical therapists, you just have like some other type of practitioner, or maybe there’s all three where you have chiropractor, physical therapist, and then the love child of these two professions? Jim: I have no idea. I think

[6:39] the two blend well together. Jason: Mhm. Jim: I tell everybody I have no original ideas. I’ve just stolen things from so many different people. And my first gig in pro sports was on the PGA Tour. And I learned so much from the physical therapists that were on that staff. It was unbelievable, cuz it was my first time that I actually was in the same room treating athletes with physical therapists. And both of

[7:09] these guys were PTAs, ATCs. Jason: Oh, yeah. Jim: And they had been on the tour for 15, 18 years. So, they had a ton of knowledge. And I had never been in a room where I could hear other people — not only watching out of the corner of my eye while I was treating, constantly seeing what they were doing and how they were doing it, but also listening to how they were explaining their review of findings. The active care aspect, you know, I

[7:40] just I just stole as much as I could from those guys and they they made me so much better that that was that was a real gift. Wow, that’s cool. Did you work for individual golfers or were you like employed by the PGA? I was employed by the PGA on their sports medicine staff. Back back then there wasn’t a lot of guys just like there are now working with individual players. Mhm. So, yeah.

[8:12] Yeah, it’s evolved. Everybody has their own their own pro. Yes. They bring their own right. Yeah, so so pros if you’re listening We’re available. Yeah, you can hire the entire PTCH Podcast staff. We’ll bring Raul with us even. Yeah. We’re not sure what he’s going to do, but it’s just going to be with games. Yes, exactly. So, how did you get started with the PGA then? Oh. I was working

[8:43] in pro track and field with USA Track and Field and met another chiropractor, Dr. Ted Forcum, who practices out of Portland, Oregon. Yep. And Ted was organizing basically the chiropractic staff for a lot of USA Track and Field events and was nice enough to invite me down. I ended up working those for about 9 years and he got hired on the PGA Tour. Worked it for a couple years

[9:13] and this is when Tiger was just coming out and having a lot of success and players then started to bring their own guys and pretty soon I according to Dr. Ted, the the clubhouse was full of all these chiropractors and physios and athletic trainers who were treating these pro golfers but they they weren’t in the sports medicine trailer. They were like in the in the clubhouse in the locker room.

[9:43] Oh, wow. And it was just like a circus in there. And the PGA said sort of like, you know, wait a minute, you know, time out. We don’t want that. There was probably some liability involved there as well. So, they started bringing on other providers, other chiropractors to join and I was one of the ones that got to try out for it and won a position. Super cool. That’s cool. And I think that’s probably like a pretty smart way to do it, too.

[10:14] Especially because that time that you’re talking about is when the big money started showing up in golf, right? Like I I think that when far in the future when they’re telling stories about professional golf Tiger Woods is going to be remembered for how much he did bring financially to the sport of golf. And so, I yeah, they’re trying to protect their investment which which is smart. And the the story I heard

[10:46] Go ahead, sorry. I heard they had somebody got a golfer in the clubhouse or in the locker room up on a physio ball with dumbbells doing squats. Standing on a physio ball? Yes. Oh, wow. Hey, these are athletes. These are athletes. I didn’t see it. I didn’t see it but that was you know, part of the training and I think the guy fell or whatever and I think that was kind of the beginning of hey, maybe this isn’t a good idea. So, shortly after the funeral

[11:19] Gosh. That’s insane. Working on balance while training the biceps. Yeah. Well, and I’m pretty sure there’s something in my malpractice insurance policy that says if you get somebody standing on a physio ball with dumbbells, you’re on your own, buddy. Sorry, we’re not backing you. Yeah. Goodness. So, you were going to ask a question. I was going to throw this out to all the medical professionals in the room. Mhm. What do you think happened to Tiger’s back? Oh, jeez. Was it cuz he swung so hard? You know?

[11:51] Was it cuz he swung so hard all the time? Did he overtrain? Such a complex question, Kathy. I mean, there’s a lot of other things, but let’s just say it was related to golf. Yes, there’s uh related to golf, so I can’t talk about his wife or car crashes or No, no, purely medical, like Okay. He has had multiple back surgeries. Well, I think part of it is there’s some people that just have a genetic predisposition to some disc problems. I

[12:22] I imagine that might be him, you know, there’s I there’s maybe people who’ve played more golf, I’m not sure. But, you know, I’m not enough of a golf guy to really be able to break down this is this is where Tiger went wrong. Yeah. But, I I think the other thing that happens, too, is sometimes along the way guys get bad advice in terms of what to do about it. I’m 100% sure, though, that that guy’s tried everything, right? He can imagine. I don’t know, Jim, you’re you’re our resident PGA golf professional.

[12:52] What’s your opinion? I’m not going to I’m not going to comment on that. Okay, fair. That’s smart. That is smart. And that is the mark of a true professional. That’s why he’s here and we are here. Well, okay, so how did this then parlay to NFL? How’d you get from PGA to NFL? So, the way that PGA worked was we

[13:22] there was a I believe it was at the time it was seven chiropractors on staff and probably five or six physical therapists. The physical therapists were full-time. Mhm. So, they were out every week, you know, six to seven days a week. Really grueling cuz that that season is Mhm. January to November. Woah. And then there were seven chiropractors. We each rotated through every 3 weeks. So, we we flew out on

[13:53] a Monday and worked Tuesday through Sunday. Mhm. And there was a regular tour at that time and a senior tour. Now it’s called the Champions Tour. So, there was a tournament usually two tournaments every weekend, sometimes three tournaments. And the PGA pulls these two trailers — treatment trailer and a fitness trailer — out to every tournament. So, there was we had both things for staff. Anyway, long story short was I share a practice with my wife and

[14:23] she didn’t like me being out of the office, you know, every 3 weeks. Yeah. Covering my patients, taking care of young kids, running the house, blah blah blah, which I don’t blame her. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I thought gosh, maybe I should see if I can land something in Seattle, so I can still do this thing that I love and and not be gone for a week Yeah. every month or sometimes it was every 2 weeks. So, anyway, I got lucky enough that

[14:54] I got asked to work for the Seattle Sounders of Major League Soccer and I did that for five seasons and then the Seahawks kind of heard about me through Sounders players and I got asked to do a tryout with the Seahawks. Wow. And that was in 2010. What does that tryout look like? I wish. Like you have to you have to take the Wonderlic test and see how many reps of bench press you can do.

[15:24] Jason: Every interview I did was almost the same for all sports. It was you walk in and the athletic trainers and the medical staff would be sitting in a chair and they present a player or an athlete to you. And then you go through your evaluation and your treatment, and that’s — my interview with the Seahawks was a week long during training camp 2010.

[15:54] And I just did what I did, you know? So got to the end of that week and got the job. Kathy: Wow. Jason: That is — that’s the short version. Kathy: Yeah, that is — going to say wow. So can you take us through what a day-to-day is like for an NFL chiropractor? So we’re — we all have different sort of experiences. Some of the same, some are a little different.

[16:24] Jason: Mine was Monday and Tuesday in the athletic training room. And then I fly out on a Friday for game day and treat, you know, maybe Friday night and Saturday all the way up to about 11:00 p.m., and then Sunday game day you have to be at the stadium 4 hours before a game. Start out treating some coaches and then the players start trickling in and you’re

[16:54] treating players, and just literally right before the national anthem goes off, you’re dashing to your locker and changing into your regular sideline clothes because you’re dripping wet because you’ve just been treating all these huge, huge people. And you know, day-to-day in the training room was an open room with the physical therapist next to me and a couple athletic trainers with tables next to me,

[17:24] and we’re — generally because a football team’s so large — you’re usually having position groups rotate through to do their workouts and their treatments. And the way our team did it was we like to kind of deal with any movement dysfunctions before they started rehab or before they started their strength training. So we’re looking at stiff ankles and stiff hips and stiff thoracic spines and kind of loosening that up with

[17:55] some manual therapy and adjusting, and then they’re off to do their weights or do their rehab, and then the next group comes through. And it’s just from about 6:45 in the morning to about 2:30 in the afternoon you’re just seeing one person after another after another. Kathy: Wow. Um, I love the — how many would you say that you would see in a typical — like, how many visits would you do in a typical weekend before game? Jason: Oh gosh. Well, weekend before the game it’s a lot,

[18:27] because most guys — I would see the same people I would see all week long, and then a lot of players it’s just a mental thing, right? They have to get their certain thing done Kathy: Mhm. Jason: on game day, even though I would say 75% of it wasn’t really necessary at that point. Kathy: It’s part of the process. Jason: Yeah, it’s part of the process. Yeah. And probably a sports

[18:58] psychologist would tell me that it was more important than I maybe thought it was, just mentally. Kathy: Mhm. Gosh, I couldn’t — I don’t know. They’re big bodies. So if you did, you know, 30 in a day, it’s a lot. Jason: Mhm. Because in football it’s just — it’s an attrition of injuries every single week, and the laundry list just keeps getting longer.

[19:28] Kathy: And I’ll tell you, so I work with Oregon State, and I can definitely identify with the big body thing. Like, I think I used to do this thing where I would in my head try and add up how many pounds of human I had adjusted in that week, right? And it’s like, oh okay, we’re right at about three or four tons. And it’s really interesting what you say about kind of that week-to-week progression, and it changed the way that I watch sports. And I don’t

[19:59] — I wonder if this is your experience too, because I think the average person they look at their favorite sports team, and it doesn’t matter what the sport is, and it’s like okay, my team runs these plays and has these players and everything like that, and you know, from week one to week whatever, it’s like how good is the team? But when you’re doing healthcare with sports, the meta game is how do we keep everybody duct-taped together so

[20:29] that they’re able to go out and participate? And so what people aren’t seeing is you’re not just seeing the talent of the players and the coaches, but you’re also seeing the talent of their medical staff and sports team. Like, you look at LeBron James, who’s had an incredible career. And part of the thing is that he’s been able to play at a very high level for an extremely long time. Jason: Long time. Kathy: And it’s unheard of, and

[20:59] I’m not taking anything away from him, but a huge part of that is his providers have made that whole thing possible. So, you ever have those kind of thoughts, or is that how you see sports now? Jason: I think about that all the time. I would also add that I think the general public thinks that most professional athletes are super driven and will do anything that you tell them,

[21:30] because I naively went into it thinking — and this is going to sound bad — but I really disliked treating people that didn’t want to do anything for themselves. Kathy: Yes. Jason: So when people didn’t do any of the self-care advice, I — I got better as I got older, but I really had a hard time with that. Yeah. So I went into professional sports thinking naively that all these guys — and gals —

[22:00] were just going to be all over all this great information I had for them. And you know what? Not everybody’s like LeBron James or any other — I can’t think of another one right now off the top of my head — but you know, super motivated, Kathy: Yeah. Jason: driven. I mean, I don’t know LeBron personally, but I watched the documentary and looked at all the things that he was doing, and you know, he’s taking good care of himself. I kind of feel like the guy could probably

[22:30] just — I don’t know. Kathy: Does he — could he get an honorary athletic trainer title? Because I mean, you got to — he’s doing a lot of this stuff on his own too, and so yeah. And Tom Brady was probably another name that would come to mind, you know? I mean, he must have taken great care of himself. So. Jason: I remember watching the documentary on Russell Wilson.

[23:01] I think he had an injury and he did PT for like 12 hours trying to get — I think it was a knee injury. You probably can’t talk about it, but yeah, I mean he was almost dogmatic about his rehab. Kathy: I remember seeing that too. And I’ve seen that too with even some of the D1 players. I think I brought this up when we had Jack on. And you can tell early on who’s going to be able to get to the next level.

[23:31] And a big part of that is how regimented and serious they are about recovery, taking care of their body. These aren’t the guys that stay out late and they’re not out there getting drunk or anything like that. They’re taking good care of their body. Now, certainly those people still make it through to the NFL, it sounds like. Jason: But yes. Yeah, and we read the headlines. Kathy: Yes. So talent can trump that, what we’re

[24:02] saying. Yes. Yes. For a period of time. For a period of time. Mhm. Yeah. So question for you guys — Jim, how did you take care of your body when you’re seeing 30 people, 30 big bodies a day? I’ve always been pretty good about trying to take care of myself. I think some of it’s just genetics. I was lucky. Mhm. Until 2017, when I fell off the roof of my home onto

[24:32] concrete and put myself out of commission for nearly 2 years. Kathy: Why didn’t your wife just give you an adjustment? Yeah, yeah. There you go. There you go. The Seahawks took good care of me, held my job open for me. Jason: Wow. Wow. Yeah, I rehabbed there at the facility every single day for a year and a half to get back to work part time. So I fractured both of my wrists and had

[25:02] to have surgery. Jason: So when you fracture your wrists as a chiropractor, that’s a bad thing? Yeah. Also, you know what’s not good is burst fractures on your spine either. Those don’t help either. Kathy: That’s what you had? Oh my gosh. And tore my abdominal wall in three places, tore my meniscus. Jason: Jim, you did it all. My labrums, my rotator cuffs, yeah. Yep.

[25:32] Both of them? Yep. Yep. That’s not good. No. Okay, so — and you lived to tell the story. What I’m writing down is: do not go up on the roof. Don’t do it. Well, I think that’s really cool though that they stuck by you. I think it really speaks to probably the relationships that you made, and I think for people who are interested in working in sports, I think that’s kind of a through line with everything you talked about — kind of networking,

[26:04] maintaining those relationships, and that kind of carries you from one thing to the next. Yeah. So speaking of relationships, we have somebody in common. I think we talked about this before, but Dr. Paul Molina. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah, so Paul, when he was at Oregon State, he was an intern at my clinic, and you used to work with Paul, right? Or he used to work with you, or something like that. Yes. Yeah. It’s neat, so

[26:35] shout out — Funky Paul Molina. Yeah. He’s infamous in my clinic because — oh jeez, what was it? I think he threw away one of my kids’ coloring books or something like that. Oh. Yeah. And now over a decade later he still is seeking forgiveness. So. Wow. Well, here’s a question I’m curious about. Can you tell us about maybe a time —

[27:07] and you don’t have to name names or anything like that — that you’ve had to navigate a disagreement with a team physician or some other professional on the staff? Like, how do you navigate that? Mhm. I was really fortunate when I was hired by the Seahawks. They had a previous chiropractor by the name of Dr. Jerry Romigetta. He was before me and he really

[27:37] laid the foundation of what an evidence-based chiropractor could do. So I walked in there with no issues whatsoever. The medical staff was used to working with a chiropractor with my skill set. You know, I just had to, like anybody would, prove myself and show them that I was competent and that I could stay in my own lane.

[28:09] And by that time I had already worked in three or four different professional sports, so I sort of knew — I didn’t know football that well. I didn’t really play football past like middle school, and surprisingly I didn’t really watch football on TV, so I became a huge fan once I was — Jason: Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah. And I saw what they go through — I was hooked for life. But

[28:40] I didn’t have any uncomfortable moments on staff. And they still have really almost the same medical and training staff and sports science staff and strength and conditioning staff that they had when I was there. My wife still does acupuncture for the team, so I still keep in contact with everyone. Yeah, it was really, really easy. It was a dream job. I

[29:12] kind of saw for the first time how quick you can get somebody better when you combine the best of what everybody’s doing. Yeah. And people actually talk to one another and share information and are open to suggestions. It was amazing. I don’t have any — I know if I had a bad story, I probably wouldn’t say it on a podcast anyway, but I’m being truthful. I really don’t. Jason: Good man. And

[29:42] those people — I was just on the phone with one of the medical doctors last night, just chatting, for the Seahawks, and I just have the utmost respect for the entire staff and learned a ton from everybody. Kathy: That’s good to hear. So, just to rewind a little bit — when I asked you to be on the podcast initially, you texted me back and you were busy doing something, right? And I was like, wait,

[30:14] what? Do you remember what I’m talking about? Like when I texted you and you were like, oh, right now I’m — what can you tell us what it was? So I retired three years ago. I got to go to the Super Bowl as my wife’s plus one, which is, you know — Jason: Wow. Busy. And super fun. And in my 49ers — Levi’s Stadium, by the way — it was a little bit painful. Kathy: A

[30:46] little bit painful. Jason: You have a lovely stadium. Nothing to be ashamed of. Yeah, right next to Great America there, not in San Francisco, California. So — that was the second Super Bowl that you’d been to? No, third. Third. Oh, right. We’re talking about the third one. The Super Bowl that shall not be named. Yeah. So tell us about that experience though. Like, what was it like coming

[31:16] back after, after like having taken three seasons off and getting to share that amazing experience. So when you’re working for a team, you’re not going to parties. You’re not going to these VIP gatherings. And I didn’t realize how many like pre-Super Bowl parties there were and little concerts and it was — I mean, I’m really grateful that they

[31:47] included me in all that. Fun experience. But I will tell you, I’ve become a bit of a fan snob, because I was on the sidelines for 12 seasons. And to sit in the stands, it’s a totally different thing. So.

Jason: And we won, and that was wonderful. So. Once you’re on the sidelines, you can’t go back.

Kathy: Yeah. Well, so I’ve coached kids sports.

Jason: Kathy

[32:19] coaches kids sports. And I’ll tell you, I mean, this is — I probably shouldn’t share this on the podcast because people in this community listen to it, but let’s do this. Man, sometimes I cannot sit in the stands and listen to other people talk. It’s just like — I think I know what you mean whenever you’re like a fan snob. It’s like people who are disagreeing with a call and they have zero clue what the rules are. And it’s just like, so.

[32:49] Kathy: Yes. Bite your tongue. Yes. It’s why I volunteer. Like, when you’re a coach or you’re on the sideline or something like that, you don’t have to deal with it.

Jason: Can’t hear it. So that’s why at the high school football games I volunteer to do the down markers.

Kathy: Oh, nice.

Jason: I’m all the way on the other side of the field.

Kathy: Yes. Smart. Smart. Nice. Nice. So on game day, are you actually — are you doing treatments at halftime? Are you like having to hustle?

Jason: Yes, you’re having to hustle.

[33:19] You’re running in there. Usually somebody has tapped you on the shoulder and given you a heads-up that they need help, or you’ve already been dealing with something on the sideline a little bit. The team physician has already examined that person.

Kathy: Okay. Okay.

And the athletic trainer knows about it, and then you’re kind of already going in there with a game plan. And then of course you always have players that just kind of wing it,

[33:49] or try to avoid seeing the team physician and think, “Well, I’m going to just go see Dr. Kurtz and he’s going to, you know, snap me back into place and all’s going to be well.” And so you’ve got to be cognizant of that sort of thing. But yeah, it’s a busy, hectic time and you’re trying to grab a little something to eat and use the restroom and then sprint back out there.

Kathy: Wow. So if a player came to you

[34:20] and didn’t see the physician, are you like, “You’ve got to go see doc first?”

It would kind of depend on what it is.

Kathy: Yeah. Okay. But if it’s something minor —

Yeah. No, but you know, once I’d been there a while, they kind of let me see people straight up because they trusted that I would know when it was outside my lane.

Kathy: Yeah. Yeah. And then generally it’s

[34:50] muscle aches and pains, you know, contusions and things. Occasionally somebody’s thinking they want you to release some tight muscle and it turns out that that’s a strain — you know, a ligament or tendon or a muscle — and you don’t want to be doing that. And sometimes it’s just babysitting guys with tight calves and you’re out there with the — what do you call the little — massage guns?

Kathy: Yeah. Yeah.

Just

[35:21] trying to keep them comfortable, you know, and get them through their day.

Jason: That’s right. Get back out there, Jim Bob. Get back out there.

Kathy: Oh, Jim Bob. He was on my fantasy. Yeah. I love that guy.

So, probably very similar to what you do in your regular practice, but what would you say are maybe the two or three biggest differences between working with a professional athlete and maybe an amateur athlete

[35:52] in terms of maybe things that you would do or approaches that you would take?

Well, that’s kind of a — man, you’re giving me a hard one.

Kathy: Yeah, well, I’m a professional podcaster now. This is the intermediate step between retiring as a chiropractor and practicing as a chiropractor.

This is your practice. You’re supposed to give us retired guys the easy questions. So, I would say most professional athletes

[36:22] kind of know what works for them and what doesn’t, and have a pretty good idea of what they’re looking for, versus an amateur athlete — or a college athlete or high school athlete — they’re looking to you for direction. So that’s kind of unique.

Jason: I have a lot of patients who think that that’s where they are.

[36:53] Kathy: That’s true. Oh my goodness.

Yes. Yeah. But now we have this thing called Google and people come in with all their ideas about what they think they have and what they think they should do for it.

Jason: Yes. Uh-huh.

Kathy: Yeah, I had an interesting experience with a patient this week that I had to part ways with. He was not compliant and had his own googly ideas about what was going on, and so wouldn’t keep

[37:23] appointments or follow treatment plans, and so I was like, yeah, you know, we’re probably not a good fit. Like, you’re just too smart for us and clearly we know nothing.

Jason: Yeah, YouTube’s better.

Kathy: Yeah, good luck. Go up to Washington, find Jim Kurtz, tell him that Captain Lynch sent you.

How do you feel, Jim? How do you feel like your practice kind of changed throughout the years, especially being on the sidelines?

[37:53] Um, I had a very busy practice in two locations by the time the Seahawks hired me. And I was fortunate that I sort of set myself up for that opportunity by having associates, so I had already had a number of years where I wasn’t in the office a whole lot. I also worked 4 years for the US Olympic Committee.

Kathy: Oh, cool.

And primarily with

[38:25] Paralympic athletes.

Kathy: Oh, sweet.

So I was out of my office a fair amount with that. And so patients were used to seeing other providers a lot of times, which is nice for me. I think that there are always going to be people in the general public that assume that because you’re the chiropractor for the Seahawks you must be, you know, the greatest chiropractor in the world.

[38:55] Jason: You probably are. That’s what I heard. Probably. They’re going to come in — they’re going to come in — chiropractors would come in and want to get treated. They just wanted to see what it was, what special sauce I might have. They wanted to sample your kung fu.

Kathy: Yes. Yes. Yeah, there you go.

Jason: I’d think that’s really the only thing — I think it gave me a lot more confidence because I knew — I knew

[39:25] what other providers did, pretty much 100%, for all these other conditions. Yeah. Which is, I think, helpful. I’ve talked about this in a couple other podcasts, but one of my biggest disappointments with my profession is that we don’t have a residency program.

Kathy: Oh.

Jason: I’ve got a son and a daughter-in-law that are medical doctors, and I saw what opportunities they’ve had, and I was really jealous of that. Mhm.

[39:56] I think that our profession would be a whole lot better if we had even a one- or two-year residency. I thought my education at University of Western States was amazing. But then to just be sent out, you know, and have to kind of learn the hard way — that was hard for me. Yeah, yeah. And very stressful, and I think there’s a reason why a lot of people don’t make it in our profession. Mhm.

[40:26] I can’t speak for physical therapy, but I felt like working in professional sports was sort of a residency for me. Kathy: Wow. Jason: And it gave me — it really opened my eyes, you know, and it did — it showed me, you know, we all have our biases. I would say that it wasn’t necessarily influenced by the university I went to, but you know, you get out and you see other people’s failures, whether it’s a physical

[40:57] therapist or medical doctor, and you start to think that other people aren’t as caring or as efficient or whatever doing their job, and the truth is there’s good and bad in all professions, you know.

Kathy: So anyway, I forgot where I was going with that, but I just feel like our profession would benefit from

[41:27] some type of residency. It really would.

Jason: Mhm. I don’t know how that would — and I know we have some. We just don’t have enough. Like, there are some residencies that are available, and I think there’s even some fellowships that are popping up. And I think you’re right. It would solve a lot of problems. And I mean, if you’re going to be a medical doctor, you’re required to do residency. And it would be great even to have the option to do residency. But I think

[41:59] we’re getting there. And I acknowledge people like you who — part of it is getting people in high-profile spots where you’re connecting with these opportunities and the people who are even outside of chiropractic that can model that type of thing. And so your leadership, I feel like, is really important, and I know that there are a lot of people that are working towards that to

[42:30] make it easier to get better faster. Mhm. And so yeah.

Jason: Yeah, in PT we have residencies that are really popular now. You can get your residency in sports or orthopedics, pediatrics, that kind of stuff, because we have certifications, and so you can just pass the test and get certified as a sports physical therapist. But they also have residencies around that too, which

[43:00] are awesome. And had I — they weren’t that popular when I was graduating, and plus I was older when I graduated and I was done with school. I was — Kathy: Jason: But yeah, I agree, because my first year — I cringe, I look back and I cringe at those patients I saw. I was like, I didn’t really know what I was doing. Even though we all had our clinical rotations, right? But they just threw me to the wolves when I first started. And I think one of the big issues is that it’s a

[43:31] situation where you don’t know what you don’t know.

Kathy: Yeah, yeah. Like, I’m working on revamping our website, and so through the power of AI —

Jason: Oh.

Kathy: I’ve gone and done deep dives on all the websites of doctors in the area, and the thing that pops up is whenever they’re like, “Oh yeah, we do a lot of sports chiropractic.” And I just kind of laugh because I’m like, you probably think you do, but you don’t. Jason: Kathy: And if I was in their position

[44:01] though, I would claim the same thing, and I would only claim that because I didn’t know what I didn’t know, right? But when you go and you work in that kind of environment and setting, then it’s like, ah, okay, this is what it is. And so I think you find that a lot in chiropractic, actually. I love my profession, I love chiropractors, but I think we could be honest about things that we need to be better with. And I think that with chiropractic in some sense — to borrow a term from the military — there’s

[44:32] some stolen valor, right? Where we want to take maybe some big words, and it’s like, oh, I know this medical word, right? And we’ve done some training on this, and now I am a, you know, a chiropractic endocrinologist. Jason: Kathy: And it’s like, that is not the same thing as an endocrinologist, right? And you can read a lot about endocrinology, but unless you’re doing that endocrinology residency, you don’t know what you don’t know, and that’s

[45:03] kind of the risk. So I’m glad to hear that you’re setting up a residency in sports chiropractic as well.

Jason: Amazing sports chiropractic in Seattle. Yes.

Kathy: Nice.

Jason: Well, I will say that that is one of the main reasons why I was a preceptor for so many students over the years, because I felt like I could at least mentor people that way. At my heyday, I was probably affiliated

[45:33] with 10 or 11 colleges. I also took some PT students and exercise science students and athletic training students, just to sort of introduce them to what it was that an evidence-based chiropractor did. So I sort of felt like that was how I would do my little part to try to make the world better.

Kathy: Outstanding. But yeah, we need some residencies. I think you’ve certainly left a dent on the profession —

[46:04] in a good way. In a good way. Right. Maybe it’s about like pounding out some of the dents. Yes. So, well, Jim, we have a tradition on the old podcast here where we like to play a game with guests. Okay. And so, would you like to play a game? It doesn’t matter if you say yes or no, we’re going to play it. I’ve never — full disclosure, I never watched one of your podcasts all the way through. So, I didn’t know you played games. That means that you’re normal.

[46:34] I was going to say that. Yeah, you’re like most people. Yes. Nine out of 10 chiropractors and physical therapists have never heard of the PTCH Podcast. The other one hasn’t either. No. So. They laugh. Sorry, that probably came out wrong, but — No, no, no, it’s all good. It’s the same thing that everybody tells us. Trust me. Yes, we know. We know what we are. Yes. That’s actually one of the great

[47:04] praises that people give the PTCH Podcast is that we’re so self-aware. And it’s actually just the praise that Kathy and I give each other as the sole listeners. That’s right. And Amy Klemp. Yeah, yeah, and Amy. What’s up, Klempster? Yeah, so, the three of us just enjoy this podcast so much, and maybe you’ll watch half of this episode, too, Jim. All right. Okay. Well, how you do with this game is going to determine whether you decide to watch the first half of

[47:34] the episode or the second half of the episode. I think it might be fair if we try to do a little bit of Seahawks trivia. This might be too easy for you, but here we go. All right? Question number one. In what year did the Seattle Seahawks play their first NFL season? Oh. Oh. They were ‘76. Woo! Wow. Bingo. Got it. Yes. Wow. Yeah.

[48:05] Yes. Excellent. Wow. All right. You’re a graduate from high school. Okay. Yes. So, you’re on a roll so far. Very good. One for one. Question number two. Do you get a prize, by the way? You do. You do. Yes. If you get enough of these correct, then you get a signed Seattle Seahawks Jim Harbaugh jersey. Don’t you have PTCH Podcast sweatshirts or something that came out? You know what? You know what? If you go 10 for 10, I’m going to send you a PTCH Podcast sweatshirt.

[48:35] I’m actually — I’ll send you a t-shirt. I’ll send you one of our NARD t-shirts. Do you know what NARD stands for? I have it on today. Oh, you do? Okay. Yeah, NARD stands for Not A Real Doctor. Oh. Yeah, it’s branded. So, Jim — Jim’s playing for a NARD PTCH Podcast t-shirt. Here we go. And you’re on a roll. You’re one for one. Question number two. Okay. Who is the Seahawks all-time franchise leader in receiving yards?

[49:05] I want to say that that changed recently. I want to say — I’ll give you a clue. It did not change recently. What’s that? I was going to say Tyler Lockett. Steve Largent still holds it. Did Lockett beat him? Okay. We got to go — can you Google that? He got it. Okay. Wow, you might be even more correct than me. We’re going to find out. We’re going to move on to number three. The Seahawks won Super Bowl — oh, I can’t read Roman numerals —

[49:37] 48. 48. Thank you. That is right. Yes, 48. In February 2014, which team did they defeat? You already said it. And what was the score? The Denver Broncos. Ooh, I’ve got the score on the inside of my Super Bowl ring. I’m terrible about remembering scores. It was a blowout. Yes. Was it like 48 to 7 or something? Close, 43 to 8. We’re going to give you credit for that one. Yeah, very good. Number four, what nickname was given to

[50:08] the dominant Seahawks secondary of the early 2010s featuring Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, and Kam Chancellor? Legion of Boom. Yes. What was it this year then? Do you know what my nickname was? What was it? The Red Dragon. The Red Dragon. I like it. Yeah, so if you’re listening, you’re not going to understand why Jim is the Red Dragon. It’s the red hair, isn’t it?

[50:39] Yes. Yes, all right, the Red — I hope so. Sweet. There’s so much lore. All right, Marshawn Lynch’s 67-yard touchdown run against the Saints in January 2011 playoffs. Excuse me. Is known by what nickname, earned because it literally registered on a nearby seismograph? The Beast Mode run. You’re very close. The key here is

[51:11] Beast Quake. Beast Quake. That is correct. You got it. Beast Quake. Man, that guy is one of my favorite — my favorite plays on the sideline of all time. Yeah, oh my god. I’ve got so many good Marshawn Lynch stories, but I can’t say them on a podcast. We’re not PG. Yeah, because we are PG. That guy just seems like he’s so much freaking fun. Mhm. He’s just a blast. Just a wonderful human being, really. I think so. I love the way that he is with people. I

[51:42] mean, he’s so funny, but like watching him interact with people in real life, he seems like he really cares and is warm and down-to-earth. Yeah. He’s also really intelligent. He just doesn’t want people to always know that. He’s a smart dude. Yeah, I believe it. I totally believe it. He sandbagged it. Yeah. Well, I mean, he did go to Cal. He did. Yeah. So — that’s not a school for suckers. It really isn’t. Yeah. I mean, he had to stay eligible. Absolutely. Oh, and the legendary —

[52:14] the legendary Marshawn Lynch moment though was stealing that cart. Oh my gosh. Driving all over the field. Mad respect. We got to get him on the show. Yeah, let’s do it. Yeah. We’d have to — it would have to be like PTCH Podcast after dark. Yeah, right. Yeah, because I will have to be like bleeping out so many — But it would be worth it. I would love every minute. Okay. Let’s see. Question number — did you

[52:44] find the information on that? Steve Largent still holds — ah, it’s still Steve Largent. Okay. But you would have known it. So we’re going to give you credit for Steve Largent. Number six. In what round of the 2012 NFL draft was Russell Wilson selected? Mm. That’s a tricky one, huh? Wow. I do not recall. I’m going to guess

[53:14] second, third round? Third round is correct. Wow, Jim. That’s so clutch. You did it. Yeah. 75th overall, third round. All right. Question worried about his height. Yeah, they were. Yeah. They were. Yeah, I guess he showed them. Yeah, I guess so. Which Seahawks offensive tackle who spent his entire 12-year career in Seattle was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2014? Mhm.

[53:45] Oh. Oh, I can picture his face. That is correct. You can picture his face. I’m not going to remember the name. If I give you his last name, can you tell me his first name? Last name is Jones. Walter something. Yes, Walter Jones. That’s correct. Walter Jones. There we go. There we go. All right. Now you’ve already answered number eight, which is how many Seahawks — or the

[54:15] Seahawks have appeared in how many Super Bowl games in franchise history. Of course, it’s three. You already said that earlier. No, it’s four. Four. Oh. They lost. Yes, they lost. No, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, I got that wrong. Yes. Yeah. Yes, I got that wrong. Yes. It’s right here in front of me, too. Whoops. Number nine, who intercepted Russell Wilson’s pass at the goal line to seal the Patriots win in the Super Bowl that we are not going to talk about.

[54:45] That guy. I’m thinking Malcolm Butler. That is correct. Butler. Yeah. You know what? Huh? I don’t know if you guys caught this, but the — this last Super Bowl, he raised the flag. Yes. at the beginning of the game. Yes, I do. I do remember that. Not happy about that. Did he really? I missed that. Oh man. Huh. All right, last one and you’re going to nail this and so we’re going to owe you a shirt. Ready? What is the current name

[55:15] of the Seahawks home stadium, which opened in 2002? Is it Lumen Field? It is Lumen Field, previously Seahawk Stadium, Qwest Field and CenturyLink Field. So, you Okay. Okay. Fantastic. This guy’s the real deal. He’s getting a sweatshirt. He’s getting a sweatshirt. Yes. That’s right. So, that being said, we’re looking for sponsors for the PTCH Podcast so that we could afford a shirt for Jim Kurtz. Yeah, so just hit

[55:45] us up. Go to sponsors.ptchpodcast.com if you’re interested in sponsoring Jim’s shirt. We have at least enough to get you your shirt, sir. Definitely. Well, Jim, this has been awesome. Thank you so much. What a real treat to have you on, taking time out of your busy retirement schedule. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah, we caught you between naps. Baling hay. Oh, baling hay. Very good. Of course.

[56:16] What do we do in retirement? I could take the camera out and show you. There’s about 700 bales out there. Are you kidding me? Okay, you’re serious. Yep. All right. Well, that’s what I have to look forward to. There we go. That’s what all the chiropractors do. Bale hay. I bet that’s great for those labrums. Yeah. What labrum? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, we’re to the part of the show where we do takeaways, Kathy. Any takeaways? Well,

Kathy: [56:47] what I loved to hear the most was how collaborative you were in the sports medicine world. You know, it seemed like you worked with the physicians, ATCs, PTs, and I just — I thought about it. I was like, I wish the world was more like that. Right. More collaborative. In everything. I feel like patients would get better — Mhm. — sooner — Mhm. — if we could just talk to each other. Can we get a group chat going? Yes. It would cost everybody less, better outcomes, less stress.

Jason: [57:18] Right. It’s so hard to talk to each other professionally. I think my take-home — I really liked what you had to say about residency. You know, it got the wheels spinning in my head and thinking about what I can do to help facilitate more mentorship so that we don’t have to keep relearning the same lessons over and over and we can elevate the quality of care and everything. So, yeah. Yeah. And then Jim, do you have any takeaways or take-home lessons?

[57:48] Well, you didn’t ask me two things that most people do ask, and one is chiropractors are recognized by the NFL, but we’re not recognized as team physicians like MDs and osteopaths. Okay. The team is not required to have us — Mhm. — but all teams do have a chiropractor. And I believe it really wasn’t

[58:20] that long ago, maybe 10 or 12 years ago, that the NFL mandated that every team should have a PT. Oh, wow. PTs haven’t been there for that long. Wow. And there seems to be some disagreement amongst NFL chiropractors as to whether or not they want to be officially recognized — Mhm. — or sorry, officially

[58:51] demanded to be on a team, because when that happens, you’re working 7 days a week, you’re in a different contract situation. Mhm. And the other one that everybody always asks is, you know, what drives chiropractic care in sports medicine? Like, how are we on staffs? And I always say in my experience it’s been athlete driven. Yeah. It wasn’t that — and

[59:21] I’m not knocking anyone — but it’s not like the teams are just saying, “Oh gosh, we need to have a chiropractor.” But mostly it’s top-level players going outside of the training room and outside of the medical staff and saying, “You know, I got help from this chiropractor for this thing that you guys weren’t helping me with.” And You mean the team doctors aren’t saying, “What are we going to do with all these subluxations?” Ah, they’re everywhere. I don’t know why. Yeah.

[59:52] I do not know why that is. Yeah. Who can get rid of these? But I think that goes back to residencies also, because my son who’s been through medical school will tell you they didn’t mention chiropractic in medical school. Mhm. And they get a very extensive education. Yeah. Mhm. I think that when you expose people to what it is we can do, it changes things, you know.

[60:22] Totally. So. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks again, Jim. You’ve been a fantastic Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, oh, if you’re still listening, shout-out to two of our sponsors. Body Felt Chiropractic and Wellness Center, that’s me. And Encore Physical Therapy. Two just excellent healthcare places who do collaborate. We do collaborate a lot. Quite often. Quite well. Also shout-out to Titan Podcasting, which is our professional podcasting studio here.

[60:54] Great work, Ryan. Thank you very much. And I think that there’s just one more important thing that we need to get to, and that is that there is no “I” in PTCH. Thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Jason.

[61:25] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.